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The Scottish Pool Association Competition Venues Riley's
Riley's 10000 amateur event
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  Riley's 10000 amateur event
by: delboy, 11-07-2011 06:52 AM (#61)

basically yes tiger, bit they would be exclude as there cat A anyways if only the cat ruling applied in Scotland
 
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RE: Riley's 10000 amateur event
by: howard miller, 11-07-2011 11:35 AM (#62)

knowledge wrote:
My guess is Rileys rules is a set of rules that will allow anyone to play in this anywhere without getting banned.


With the politics that are currently in the game at the moment, lets be honest have been in the game and almost killing the game for over 20 years, we felt we had little choice but when running our own events, and only our own events to use our own set of rules. A set as you suggest dont cheese people off, but more importantly dont cheese the various associatons off

It is not judst you guys in Scotland either whose opinions we have to consider, its those in Wales and in England, and its very hard to come up with a solution or even idea that would please all....impossible in fact

In Scotland BB rules are the most popular, arguab;y the same in Wales, whilst in England the majoroty of leagues play OLD EPA rues or a NO SWEARING!!ised version of. Compound further by the best players within the EPA (the card holders) all pretty much stuck on WR

We are not sayingextra rules are a good thing. We accpet that most certainly, with any level playing fiedl it would be the last thing we would want to do, but if we wish to encourage local league players to enter this from all parts of the UK this, as the last event proved appears to work, with players whilst not being totally happy to compete with rules not of their choice admit that they are fine

They are basic and easy to understand and do no more than serve the cause
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RE: Riley's 10000 amateur event
by: howard miller, 11-07-2011 11:39 AM (#63)

FlyingScotsman wrote:
lumie wrote:
At the risk of appearing widden.........what the bejesus is Rileys rules Ross?


LOL.

This is not the first time Riley's have done pool events with big prize money, they did one a few years ago.

They are a business and will be looking to get every pool player to get involved, except for the top players who they wish to keep out.

Riley's will allow everyone from their own area/country to play their own set of rules at the first two stages, then at the finals in England they will bring in their own set so that everyone is equal, these rules I am soory , I do not know but will be along the lines of WRs and BB which are both open rules.

Looking at the dates they are doing this it does not really clash with major events in the SPA calander so get in there boys and girls and try and qualify for the finals, I hope, because I cannot remember who qualified from Scotland the last time, will come on here and inform you all how he finals went for them in Liverpool.


Thats actually two comments I would ask people to at last accept. These rules are just for our events. When we have sponsored events by the SPA and or the SEPF we would never dream of asking or remotely suggestimng that they should ever play rules other than those they normally play, it would be insulting to do so, not to mention I know what the answer would be

We also checked all diaries (as I always do) before planning the event to ensure that it doesn't clash. Not to do would be equally damaging to the event
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RE: Riley's 10000 amateur event
by: furrybeast, 11-07-2011 11:45 AM (#64)

Still no answer as to what happens when an SPA player comes up against an SEPF player at either local or regional stages.

As it stands the SPA player cannot play Rileys rules. This HAS to be cleared up before the SPA players have to green light to enter.

It makes not a jot of difference to me - my entry is in already, but hope this event is a big success for Rileys.
 
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RE: Riley's 10000 amateur event
by: howard miller, 11-07-2011 12:04 PM (#65)

FlyingScotsman wrote:
The more I think of it Riley's would not want to have their own set of rules but what other choice do they have other than do their own if they want as many players to play in their event.

In Scotland we have the SEPF they have a lot of players who play WR so Riley's would want them in it and of course the SPA have the vast majority of pool players in Scotland.

If you look at England they are even worst than us about 30% of their leagues play WRs 10/15% play BB but the biggest majority play the old EPA rules which take forever, so they can't use them.

Wales is more like us with the majority playing BB in fact very few leagues in Wales play WRs if any but some still play different rules.

If only they would see sense and get us all under one body playing one set of rules more companies like Riley's would not have to get their own set and more sponsorship would come in.


Again Spot on. As suggested earlier there is no way we would want to almost be forced into playing another set of rules, on the face of it . it's madness. However with everyone still arguing with each other as vitriolicly today, as they were 25 years ago and worse, lets be honest with no solution really in sight, what can we do, what can anyone do?

Forgetting which rules you play and it is obvious and understanding that the majority of people reading this will lean heavily if not almost exclusively to BB rules, if for a minute you can take that preference out of the equation, and try instead to perhaps ask yourself this.

If you were running a UK event and wanted to attract as many entries as you could, what rules would be the best to play?

Looking at ther percentages Ross sugests, which after a huge survey of some 400 leagues plus a few years ago I know to be very accurate, they highlight the extent of the problem we all have.

Not just us at Rileys but for you guys, the players, for Ross, for the SPA, SEPF, WEPF, division is everywhere and worse its largely, through one channel or another its a self imposed one

In Scotland where the most popular rules are indeed BB(maybe 40 leagues, certainly heading that way anyway)
I am told, hopefully without beimng unfair, that the SEPF have maybe 10/12 leagues playing to WR but by that very admittance it will then leave best side of 40/50 leagues throughout Scotland that play to neither.
Playing instead to probably to a whole range of local and specialised rule sets and again this isn't my problem or your problem its everyones bloody problem, and without asking anyone to agree I am hopeful that at least you will try and understand that

If you go south where well over 50% of leagues play a NO SWEARING!!ised version of the old EPA rules it gets worse, as the number of leagues we are talking about probably quadruples.

In England as Ross suggests, 10, maybe 15% od leagues play BB, (in Wales this would probably be doubled again) but if one takes it as "UK" average as opposed to a national overviewit is probably unarguable that of all the pool leagues organised less than 20% either BB or WR and the rest play local favourites

That shows just how deep pools problems go. Stop for a second and you will see just how scary that is!

Look if anyone doesn't like the idea of playing the chosen rules in this event, which will happen, then, even though you would have just the same chance as any other player, then there is nothing I can do and obviously you wont be entering

Hopefully though you will understand who its run for and why and if eligible go for it
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RE: Riley's 10000 amateur event
by: howard miller, 11-07-2011 12:08 PM (#66)

vinnyvegas wrote:
me,davie riggins,slack and wullie biggam where a team that went to liverpool...
the rules were a mixture of wr and bb rules thrown together..
was a good tourney..
only thing i would say is unless you get the rules and practice them b4 going to play in the finals they will catch you out big time..if i remember correctly the english teams all played to rileys rules in the qualifiers so were used to them,which gave them a massive advantage..


Thtas actually not true Vinny. If we know an area or a region plays one set of rulkes specifically, then as long as 'ALL' players at those regionals agree they can play those rules.

But your right most did, not to give them any advantage purely because so many players had so many different versions
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RE: Riley's 10000 amateur event
by: howard miller, 11-07-2011 12:13 PM (#67)

FlyingScotsman wrote:
JASONVOORHEES wrote:
If you have represented any country
internationally and at any level (excluding ladies)
during the same three year period.

you can contact rileys and ask them Mini


John I don't really think that will be the case, I cannot confirm until Riley's reply to my e mail but I have asked certain questions regarding Internationals.

The SPA sends 130/150 players each year to Bridlington, the teams change each year so that couild come to somewhere in the 300 hundred bracket of SPA players not allowed to play, going by the 3 years.

I do not belive that Riley are trying to stop these players from playing in the event, I believe that it is only the top players from each country that they are not wanting to play but until that is confirmed I cannot be sure.


On reflection this rule was badly written, as it was not intended to exclude any players other than those 'current' elite and in my mind that was International A players

Not decrying the endeavours and passion shown by B team players when at the larger events but they were not meant to be included, and 'WILL NOT BE INCLUDED' and I will amend the details on our T&C's

National, World and or Europesan Champions will still be excluded though
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RE: Riley's 10000 amateur event
by: Weesteed, 11-07-2011 12:16 PM (#68)

Can I play in this then> I haven't played mens international for 3 years now.
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RE: Riley's 10000 amateur event
by: JASONVOORHEES, 11-07-2011 12:21 PM (#69)

howard miller wrote:


National, World and or Europesan Champions will still be excluded though


does this include CURRENT Scotland B1 Team then? who are the current world champs.
 
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RE: Riley's 10000 amateur event
by: howard miller, 11-07-2011 12:25 PM (#70)

Pat Holtz wrote:
You've got to love the title of the event.......UK Pool MASTERS.......

but.....

no good players allowed in it!

Priceless hilarious


Sorry Holtzy, you and I have had many conversations on this in the past, you will not change your vies, nor I mine.

This is an amateur only event and such excluding top players, and the last time I looked that title did indeed still apply to you sir is because by doing so we believe it gives the good players-those that by anyone definition wouldn't be called super stars- to have for one of the rare times a great and genuine chance of glory

Nots saying its right, its simplya qualifying rule, like exclududing someone thats 49 from an over 50's event, a 22 year old from an U21's event, an amateur from a professional event or mens from a ladies event

I also think you are being way patronising when you say no good players are allowed in it either.

Sorry if this response is going to court arguement, after knowing for you for what 25 years I hope not, but such words, especially coming from one so illiustruious is the one of the resasons the rule is there

Top players believe as a generlisation that everything should be done for them simply on that premise. I dont.
I feel were it not to be for the Mr and Mrs average that fill up so many events, take Jersey and Catalonia just as two examples then there wouldn't be an event for the best players to win in the first place

The best players win every top event, bar none, but they wont be winning this one mate. However a good player will even though according to you mate, none are allowed to enter

Will just have to agree to disagree on this one I guess
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RE: Riley's 10000 amateur event
by: JASONVOORHEES, 11-07-2011 12:26 PM (#71)

Weesteed wrote:
Can I play in this then> I haven't played mens international for 3 years now.


your still Cat A Champ....
 
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RE: Riley's 10000 amateur event
by: howard miller, 11-07-2011 12:27 PM (#72)

furrybeast wrote:
Can it be expected that the policy regarding playing BB rules only will be waived for this event?

I'll give you an example -

Player A from Aberdeen meets player B from Glasgow at a REGIONAL qualifier held in SCOTLAND. One will want to play BB rules, one will want to play WR - under the terms of the competition, if the 2 players cannot agree they MUST play "Rileys rules"

Answers on postcard please


George, thats exactly what will happen and why as your example proves it is, whilst not imposible, its almost impossible to play an event like this without upsetting some players

Sigh.................................bug
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RE: Riley's 10000 amateur event
by: howard miller, 11-07-2011 12:28 PM (#73)

furrybeast wrote:
furrybeast wrote:
Can it be expected that the policy regarding playing BB rules only will be waived for this event?

I'll give you an example -

Player A from Aberdeen meets player B from Glasgow at a REGIONAL qualifier held in SCOTLAND. One will want to play BB rules, one will want to play WR - under the terms of the competition, if the 2 players cannot agree they MUST play "Rileys rules"

Answers on postcard please


Right lets forget about the regional stage as some can't seem to grasp where I'm coming from!

I'm guessing Rileys Inverness will be holding a LOCAL qualifier. There will be a mixture of WR and BB players entering this. Obviously neither will want to play the others rules, so they will HAVE to play "Rileys rules"

WILL THE SPA PLAYERS BE PERMITTED TO DO THIS?


Yes and Yes
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RE: Riley's 10000 amateur event
by: JASONVOORHEES, 11-07-2011 12:33 PM (#74)

I think your doing a GREAT job Howard, and to come on here answering all these Questions is Fantastic.

clap
 
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RE: Riley's 10000 amateur event
by: howard miller, 11-07-2011 12:34 PM (#75)

Macleod00 wrote:
I would think that, under the letter or the law (that I can't seem to find on here), that they would not be able to play.

The really sad thing is that the BB players in Inverness will probably be scaremongered out of competing for fear of being being banished from SPA events and local league singles/doubles comps.

Maybe this is an opportunity to look again at the bigger picture and how the banning policy affects certain SPA league members' ability to compete in great tournaments on their doorstep.


This is not an SPA event, SEPF, WR event, WEPF event, WPA event, a CCI event a bloody BBC event and MBE event it is but a simple bloody pool tournament with a decent wedge in prize money

Inspite of what some people might try and claim it is not run in conjunction with any other body or organsation, it is not promoting the ideals, policies or rules of anyone else, we have been forced into this, which by now hopefully many will begin to understand because of this political nonsense and no-one as I understand from either camp riskes any punishment if enetering

If there is please let me know on howard.miller@rileys.co.uk and we will them take a view on it"!

Jesus, where is my nearest floating tank of isoltaion?soapbox
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RE: Riley's 10000 amateur event
by: Sh88ters Aberdeen, 11-07-2011 12:36 PM (#76)

JASONVOORHEES wrote:
I think your doing a GREAT job Howard, and to come on here answering all these Questions is Fantastic.

clap


Wise up min.
He is doing his job and drumming up business in a tough economic time...
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RE: Riley's 10000 amateur event
by: howard miller, 11-07-2011 12:37 PM (#77)

furrybeast wrote:
Steed Snr wrote:
SPA members can only play comps in scotland with BB rules only.


Ach well, if that's the case, this entire thread might as well be deleted, as no SPA member will be able to play in it.

Pity, sounds like a good comp bye


If that is the rule and I cant believe it is, certainly not the intention of the rule as Ross has told me many times SPA players are free to enter pretty much what they wish (other thamn internationals opposing world or Eurpean events etc) and most certainly not in the context of this event.

Ross can you phone me on this one pleasae?
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RE: Riley's 10000 amateur event
by: furrybeast, 11-07-2011 12:41 PM (#78)

howard miller wrote:
furrybeast wrote:
furrybeast wrote:
Can it be expected that the policy regarding playing BB rules only will be waived for this event?

I'll give you an example -

Player A from Aberdeen meets player B from Glasgow at a REGIONAL qualifier held in SCOTLAND. One will want to play BB rules, one will want to play WR - under the terms of the competition, if the 2 players cannot agree they MUST play "Rileys rules"

Answers on postcard please


Right lets forget about the regional stage as some can't seem to grasp where I'm coming from!

I'm guessing Rileys Inverness will be holding a LOCAL qualifier. There will be a mixture of WR and BB players entering this. Obviously neither will want to play the others rules, so they will HAVE to play "Rileys rules"

WILL THE SPA PLAYERS BE PERMITTED TO DO THIS?


Yes and Yes


I'm afraid that answer needs to come from the SPA exec. As it stands, any SPA player who plays ANY rules apart from BB in Scotland faces a ban. Hence my question.
 
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RE: Riley's 10000 amateur event
by: howard miller, 11-07-2011 12:44 PM (#79)

delboy wrote:
seen as Howard Miller is the newest member of this site maybe he could come on and clarify on this thread who can and cannot play in this, i dont think they have thought this through as there are also kids through out the uk playing at u16 and u18 kids as young as 10 who have played for there country in the last 3 years, spend there money in there clubs weekly and cannot play in thuis cause they have played for there country, seems rileys could shoot themselfs in the foot with this one.

would be good if you could clarify this for us Howard

Thanks


I thought 'we thought of most issues' to be fair.

Have answered this previously for you and others Del now, (let me know if there is anything specific you want an answer too mate) and minimum age limit will be 14 years of age as long as all are accompained by a responsible adult or parent

You are also right mate we might be if not shhoting our foot, certainly nibbling at the little toe by preventing champions entering, but at 17, 19, and 21 I can not but helpo think the best players in those categories are as every bit as good as those we have excluded and pool is littered with such players

Take young Jayson. Tommy Donlon, Micky Lambert to name but a few. I also am not sure if it lies comofrtable with me tyo actually encourage mass entry from the kids yet. We would much prefer as we have done twice now, to organise the search for the new Ronnie, wehre the winner not only is given a 5 grant, but gets time, mentoring and coaching form the great man

Again not saying we are ight just the mimdset we have on the two. Other will obviously have their own take on such things
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RE: Riley's 10000 amateur event
by: Weesteed, 11-07-2011 12:49 PM (#80)

JASONVOORHEES wrote:
Weesteed wrote:
Can I play in this then> I haven't played mens international for 3 years now.


your still Cat A Champ....


It doesn't state in the T&C's that Scotland Cat 'A' can't enter, that is just Mr McInnes that has said that.
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