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No talking at doubles rule
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  No talking at doubles rule
by: jas1, 16-05-2012 11:47 PM (#1)

Looking for some clarification on the rules for talking at doubles as we had a situation in a local league match. I understand that different leagues might treat this differently but would still like to see what the general conscensus is.

My partner was playing a shot to cover a bag and snooker at the same time. The table was rolling a bit and he's potted the ball. He's got up off the shot and looked at me and I've said "I can't talk to you now" and the opposing team has wanted to claim 2 shots.

I don't know what the rule is but my understanding of it was that the no talking rule was brought in to stop players telling their partner the shot to play after their first shot. In no way can "I can't talk to you now" be interpreted as leading him and telling him what shot to play. I'm basically telling him to get on with it himself.

In any case, the ref never heard me talking so decided he couldn't give 2 shots. The opposing player then cleared up anyway so they still won the frame, so the situation never affected the outcome of the frame.

However, to expect 2 shots to be given for an instance like the above seems to me to be taking the rule too far. It's a bit desperate if you ask me and if local league pool went back to the days of crazy rules like this then I'd give it a miss. If I ask my partner if he wants a can of juice, or tell him that I'm going to the toilet, is that 2 shots too?

So, yeah, I'm looking for a common sense explanation of the rules regarding talking at doubles. As I understand it, it should only apply if a player tells his partner what shot to play. Or at least that seems the sensible interpretation.
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RE: No talking at doubles rule
by: Mulvay, 17-05-2012 12:23 AM (#2)

I would say foul by the letter of the law as if he did try and talk to you it would of been a foul so you've coached him, preventing the foul if you get what i mean lol.
You get some right desperadoes trying to take fouls for the doubles partner saying 'shot' and that.thumbdown
 
Edited by Mulvay 17-05-2012 12:23 AM
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RE: No talking at doubles rule
by: jas1, 17-05-2012 12:33 AM (#3)

I think that's crazy. The intention of the rule is, I guess, to speed to doubles play and cut down on coaching.

I, if I was the ref, would not give this foul unless one player was telling the other what shot to play. Any other interpretation of that rule seems ridiculous to me.

Like you said, what if I'd said "good shot" or, even worse, "I'm just nipping to the toilet"?

Talk about pedantic!
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RE: No talking at doubles rule
by: Woody, 17-05-2012 07:45 AM (#4)

Some of the guys ive played against its two shots i know one player if he said i cant talk to you now would be code for "if i could talk to you, snooker." Not saying this was the case here.

There are some shifty shady desperados that play pool and will try anything within the rules to win a frame. The rule maybe is unfair for honest pool players amongst us like yourself Jas but its a must in trying to combat the bad apples.
 
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RE: No talking at doubles rule
by: billabong, 17-05-2012 07:52 AM (#5)

In our league rules for doubles, you can talk to your partner, but the non playing partner cannot
point anything ( lol ) to show for example "hit it here".
This includes the non playing partner addressing, or touching the table. Addressing the table in some
peoples eyes included the non playing partner being 3 feet away from the table, and extending his index
finger to indicate what ball to hit.
Got ridiculous when a team awarded a foul for the non playing guy touching the table with his hand
( more bumping into it really) as he walked around the table back to where he was originally standing.

Not only that, the foul for this is loss of frame. thumbdown

Be interesting to hear what other leagues do regerding communication during doubles matches.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Edited by billabong 17-05-2012 07:56 AM
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RE: No talking at doubles rule
by: wonderoftheweaz, 17-05-2012 07:54 AM (#6)

I was there and agree it stupid should have never got as far as it did never 2
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RE: No talking at doubles rule
by: knowledge, 17-05-2012 08:14 AM (#7)

No talking defeats the purpose of doubles. I got two shots given against me on a Wednesday once for a belter. I was late getting to the Carousel and just in the door was put on at doubles.

I play my first shot pot a ball (really) and get the pace totally wrong. My partner says "aye, the tables fast" (or slow whichever it was) and the ref, who had a total hard on, gives two.

There are just guys who enjoy this sort of thing.
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RE: No talking at doubles rule
by: DAWG, 17-05-2012 08:50 AM (#8)

knowledge wrote:
No talking defeats the purpose of doubles. I got two shots given against me on a Wednesday once for a belter. I was late getting to the Carousel and just in the door was put on at doubles.

I play my first shot pot a ball (really) and get the pace totally wrong. My partner says "aye, the tables fast" (or slow whichever it was) and the ref, who had a total hard on, gives two.

There are just guys who enjoy this sort of thing.


What made him get a hard on like?

Hot barmaid?
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RE: No talking at doubles rule
by: grinder, 17-05-2012 08:53 AM (#9)

In the Midlothian league we play scotch doubles and because you can talk inbetween each shot, I think it has actually sped up the frames.Talking to your partner also helps develop new and inexperienced players by teaching them various tactics during the frame. These players need the help to develop or they may just give up and you cannot run a league without the lesser teams.
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RE: No talking at doubles rule
by: JASONVOORHEES, 17-05-2012 09:34 AM (#10)

AGREE 100% with Grinder, how are the Inexperienced supposed to learn if they cant talk????

I remember playing Mixed doubles with Jackie Mac at Craig tara and for the first couple of rounds there was Talking which was good then all of a sudden it was changed to NO talking....pppffffttttt....this was Jackies first time playing and was a nervous wreck to begin with...but as soon as there was no talking...ooooffffftttt....aw er the camp....couldnt relax it was a shame because up untill that point Jackie and I were having fun...and the fun was ripped away....I would like to see talking introduced to Doubles again....with a referee keeping close eye on players taking longer to play shots then inforce the 1min rule....what we forget is that its the TOP players that see the obvious shot straight away or maybe the ONLY shot....but the Inexperienced players are puzzled....they just don't see the shot....talking at doubles helps us help others.....it helps us relax our partner who'm maybe nervous so we can settle them down before playing a shot....and give them advice and hopefully show them a shot that they didnt see or think of....

well thats my opinion on the matter.

Regarding John Brownlies post about the guy with a BONNAR...sound s like a ROBOT to me with no forgiveness...but then again if the rules are rules...what can we do...very petty tho from that ref.

hmm
 
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RE: No talking at doubles rule
by: jas1, 17-05-2012 10:31 AM (#11)

I'm still not sure. I get what you are saying Woody about codes and whatnot but it still seems like a pretty severe interpretation of the rules. If we are going to suppose people are sending coded messages then we should ban the non-player from making any movement or noise whatsoever! Now, it's at the silly stage again.

It reminds me of when (in a certain league) if you could only see a millimetre of a ball and were playing a slow shot. If the table ran off and you just missed your ball and hit the opponent's. I've seen these called as loss of frame as well (not for a while mind)! No thought given to the actual circumstances, just a black and white enforcement of a rule (misunderstood in this case because there is no recognition of whether it's a 'genuine' attempt or not, and it obviously is). Common sense should be applied in conjunction with rules. Anyway, that's a different matter.

I also agree with Grinder that talking doesn't always slow doubles down. Even with not talking, the slow teams will still look at shots forever before deciding what to play. Some people just play pool that way.
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RE: No talking at doubles rule
by: jas1, 17-05-2012 10:43 AM (#12)

Just remembered this has happened to me before!

In about 2004 ish I played in Elaine Campbell's team in a league.

We are playing doubles, 6-5 down. I have a tap-in. We've talked about it and agreed it's a tap-in, and I'll go this way.

Almost immediately I've ran out of position so after a couple of shots I had to change my route (it's still a tap in). I've looked over at Elaine and she's looking a bit worried and I've said (forgetting the no talking rule which wasn't in use in other leagues at the time) "it's okay, I'm just going to leave that one for last", pointing at a ball.

End result - 2 shots and beat! Shock

What is it they say? Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice,.......
 
Edited by jas1 17-05-2012 10:43 AM
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RE: No talking at doubles rule
by: Woody, 17-05-2012 10:47 AM (#13)

jas1 wrote:
I'm still not sure. I get what you are saying Woody about codes and whatnot but it still seems like a pretty severe interpretation of the rules. If we are going to suppose people are sending coded messages then we should ban the non-player from making any movement or noise whatsoever! Now, it's at the silly stage again.


You obviously havent played against Dazza.Grin
 
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RE: No talking at doubles rule
by: FRA, 17-05-2012 03:32 PM (#14)

Reminds me when i was playing for the local pub domino team as they were short of players in a "key" match in the league.

Playing doubles and my partner mouths "four, four" - i took this to mean he was loaded with 4s and was quite happy to leave the four at each end, feeling pleased with myself!

Turns out he didnt have any and as we lose the tie says "whit the f@#k did ye do that for" - i say "coz ye mouthed four, four" - to which he replies "ya wee fan@y - i was just telling you the score in the match"
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RE: No talking at doubles rule
by: JASONVOORHEES, 17-05-2012 04:16 PM (#15)

FRA wrote:
Reminds me when i was playing for the local pub domino team as they were short of players in a "key" match in the league.

Playing doubles and my partner mouths "four, four" - i took this to mean he was loaded with 4s and was quite happy to leave the four at each end, feeling pleased with myself!

Turns out he didnt have any and as we lose the tie says "whit the f@#k did ye do that for" - i say "coz ye mouthed four, four" - to which he replies "ya wee fan@y - i was just telling you the score in the match"


lmao....

remembers me of a time watching my MATES DAD PLAYING FOR A DOMINOES TEAM AND THERE WAS THIS GUY WHO COULDNT HOLD THE DOMINOES PROPERLY so he lined them up on the table....well this was a League decider and one of the guys bumped into the table knocking the guys doms over there for claiming the match....LOL...hilarious
 
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RE: No talking at doubles rule
by: wonderoftheweaz, 18-05-2012 12:33 AM (#16)

I think it stupid at the starting each visit you can talk then you cannae talk wtf
I recall when the rules changed over this caused so much grief bin it and let players learn to play
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RE: No talking at doubles rule
by: JB, 18-05-2012 12:49 AM (#17)

I remember, this one time, at band camp.......
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RE: No talking at doubles rule
by: maxi, 18-05-2012 08:07 AM (#18)

wonderoftheweaz wrote:
I think it stupid at the starting each visit you can talk then you cannae talk wtf
I recall when the rules changed over this caused so much grief bin it and let players learn to play


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Doubles without talking is a contradiction in terms.
 
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RE: No talking at doubles rule
by: Maxi Jnr, 18-05-2012 08:25 AM (#19)

I play in the airdrie league and its scotch doubles you can talk at anytime but the 1 minute rule is in play lot lot better in my opinion because there is so many players coming on in the league and its because there playing with experienced players at doubles.
 
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Edited by Maxi Jnr 18-05-2012 08:26 AM
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RE: No talking at doubles rule
by: jas1, 18-05-2012 05:24 PM (#20)

I asked the league for a clarification on this rule and a committee member (league secretary I think) told me that any talking between partners once a visit has commenced is a foul. I think they are considering changing the rule though judging by the comments.

I think this is a ridiculous rule and wondered if anyone could justify it's use. Woody came closest to coming up with a plausible reason for it's existance when he said that partners could have code words. The thing is though, if they were that determined to send codes they could just as easily have code gestures or coughs (if they were that desperate), so this rule doesn't stop that.

I'm at a loss to see what this rule does achieve? If you want to stop coaching then have a rule "no coaching between partners once a visit has commenced" not "no talking between partners once a visit has commenced". What unfair advantage is gained by one person asking another what time it is or something innocuous like that? Or saying "here, I've got a bit of chalk here" when his partner starts fumbling around in his pockets. Or saying "unlucky" when his partner snookers himself on his next shot. Or umpteen other things one person might say to another quite instinctively.
 
Edited by jas1 18-05-2012 05:58 PM
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