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The Scottish Pool Association General SPA Announcements
TC Criteria for superleague events
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  TC Criteria for superleague events
by: Bapsley, 22-02-2013 12:27 PM (#41)

knowledge wrote:
maxi wrote:
Jenny wrote:
shoot me down for this but does this rule apply to ladies?


Consider yourself shot down Wink

No


One rule for one.......


I agree John it should be the same for all

Not that it would ever happen but if Shona, Claire, Linda, Yvonne, Denise, Elaine etc all moved to Falkirk, would they all be allowed to play in the C team?
 
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: 8ballchick, 22-02-2013 12:47 PM (#42)

See i disagree because it plain and simple the calibre of play between the men and women is different and thats plain for all to see. Answer this question Terri....would any of those girls make the mens a or even b teams?? I for one am no sue thomson or alison fisher and will never make it big time but good enough to play league and ladies international.

I am lucky to make our d team this year and its all down to the high standard of players edinburgh have i wouldnt say i was better than any of my team and thats where the difference lies.
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: Laura C, 22-02-2013 12:48 PM (#43)

This is the categories debacle all over again!
The TC need to stop trying to micro manage everything.

Team selection should be down to individual areas to sort out. If an area wants to field a strong C team to go and scoop the whopping 50 each prizemoney, then I'm sure the A and B teams that have been left short of talent will have something to say about it.

And who do the TC think they are that they can make a decision on individual players across all areas. Are you going to know about an ex snooker pro that doesn't play IMs that comes in as a superleague player for e.g. Doon Valley (sorry just trying to think of an area outwith the current TCs field of 'expertise' )

How many players are going to be at CraigTara.....potentially over 600?!.......when is this list of players going to be vetted for suitability?
 
Edited by Laura C 22-02-2013 12:52 PM
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: Laura C, 22-02-2013 12:52 PM (#44)

And given all the airtime the categories and playing restictions on events have got at meetings etc, how on earth has this change just been allowed to happen.
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: Bapsley, 22-02-2013 12:56 PM (#45)

I see what your saying doll but I wasnt trying to say that the standard between men and women is anywhere near the same, but you have to agree Claire, Shona, Linda etc are good enough to play in certain A teams and are far too good to be playing at C level, therefore there should be a ruling in place to stop that.

With the whole cafuffle that we had with Woody not being allowed to play with us in a B team I just think its daft that a world champion (albeit ladies) would be allowed in a C event.
 
Terri Lapsley
Under 23, Youth and Junior Chairwoman
Scottish Pool Youth Academies Co-Ordinator
 
Edited by Bapsley 22-02-2013 01:33 PM
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: Sting, 22-02-2013 03:03 PM (#46)

Its good to see some sort of proper criteria so well done the TC for setting that out.

Agree with most of it except top 100 in rankings, as everyone keeps saying the rankings are distorted so why use them?

Agree with the A team structure as anyone in the A team for U23 is defo too good however, disagree with the youth statement.

Also it shouldn't apply to the ladies for the simple fact that some of the players aren't good enough for their areas A/B team so would therefore have to get put in the C team.

Also I think Laura is right why would people make a C team stronger than the A or B team, let the areas pick their teams and lets play pool. Its one frame pool ffs
 
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: Sting, 22-02-2013 03:06 PM (#47)

Bapsley wrote:
knowledge wrote:
maxi wrote:
Jenny wrote:
shoot me down for this but does this rule apply to ladies?


Consider yourself shot down Wink

No


One rule for one.......


I agree John it should be the same for all

Not that it would ever happen but if Shona, Claire, Linda, Yvonne, Denise, Elaine etc all moved to Falkirk, would they all be allowed to play in the C team?


Would depend on who the captains were.
 
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: tricky, 22-02-2013 03:47 PM (#48)

Laura C wrote:
This is the categories debacle all over again!
The TC need to stop trying to micro manage everything.

Team selection should be down to individual areas to sort out. If an area wants to field a strong C team to go and scoop the whopping 50 each prizemoney, then I'm sure the A and B teams that have been left short of talent will have something to say about it.

And who do the TC think they are that they can make a decision on individual players across all areas. Are you going to know about an ex snooker pro that doesn't play IMs that comes in as a superleague player for e.g. Doon Valley (sorry just trying to think of an area outwith the current TCs field of 'expertise' )

How many players are going to be at CraigTara.....potentially over 600?!.......when is this list of players going to be vetted for suitability?


I don't know how many times I have said this same thing.

The TC must think local leagues are daft if they think they'd let a really good player drop out of the A team.

I'd scrap this rubbish now before an event has even been played.

Well said though Laura. clap
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: gandalph, 22-02-2013 03:52 PM (#49)

knowledge wrote:
maxi wrote:
Jenny wrote:
shoot me down for this but does this rule apply to ladies?


Consider yourself shot down Wink

No


One rule for one.......


discrimination
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: alligator, 22-02-2013 06:52 PM (#50)

maxi wrote:
Blacksmith wrote:
tricky wrote:
The more I look at this the worse it actually seems. Youths can't be in a C team?

I guess Edinburgh D might at least get the benefit of them at the same event lol. Farcical ruling really.

No disrespect to Ben Brogan, but there is no way at this time he would get in the Edinburgh A, or B teams, I doubt very much he was one of the first asked for the C team either.
I can't recall him ever qualifying for an IM, nor doing much in any local singles events.
He has though been selected to play for Scotland Under 23's B2 team.
This should be something for him to be proud of, not something for the SPA to use against him.
Are the TC seriously going to freeze this young player out of the 11's due to his selection?


Read the ruling again. If this was the case it would state Youth B internationals.

Mens B teams are not considered internationalists, so the rule for next level specifies B, youth and seniors international players so this will be Seniors A and Youth A players.

Just like the categories wouldnt put Seniors B players in the Cat Bs.

All this requires is some common sense, I know thats hard on here.
. By whom are Men's B players not considered Internationals ? By you ? The SPA ? The EBA ? Who exactly ? What an insult that is to all the B team players that represent Scotland.
 
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: HarryC, 22-02-2013 07:07 PM (#51)

Have to agree. If i was fortunate to be picked for any Scottish team be it B or Z then i would've like to have been considered an international player. It really is a shocking statement !mad!
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: The Islander, 22-02-2013 08:33 PM (#52)

Is it too late to switch to SEPF
 
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: maxi, 22-02-2013 08:34 PM (#53)

Its always been the case Renzie and you know.

its said every year the only reason B teams exist in International pool is to put bums in beds and help get the numbers attending to get that level of sponsorship.

if you can show me how many B teams get to compete for a World Championship if they are considered Internationalists.
 
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: maxi, 22-02-2013 08:52 PM (#54)

Laura C wrote:
This is the categories debacle all over again!
The TC need to stop trying to micro manage everything.

Team selection should be down to individual areas to sort out. If an area wants to field a strong C team to go and scoop the whopping 50 each prizemoney, then I'm sure the A and B teams that have been left short of talent will have something to say about it.

And who do the TC think they are that they can make a decision on individual players across all areas. Are you going to know about an ex snooker pro that doesn't play IMs that comes in as a superleague player for e.g. Doon Valley (sorry just trying to think of an area outwith the current TCs field of 'expertise' )

How many players are going to be at CraigTara.....potentially over 600?!.......when is this list of players going to be vetted for suitability?


I always considered you quite clever Laura, setting out a criteria means the onus is taken off the TC to know every player.

The reps voted overwhelmingly to have the TC look at teams to make sure areas were not pulling fly ones.

Yous all go on here like the TC want to make things difficult, we are a committee given a task to do.

AND WE WILL CARRY OUT THAT TASK.

Remember if any area or team don't think its fair that someone is excluded then they can appeal to the body of the hall.

Without criteria how would this work if teams showed up at the events with last minute replacements?

If a team have to bring in a replacement at very last minute then the area can easy see if replacement will be eligible or not.
 
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: alligator, 22-02-2013 09:22 PM (#55)

maxi wrote:
Its always been the case Renzie and you know.

its said every year the only reason B teams exist in International pool is to put bums in beds and help get the numbers attending to get that level of sponsorship.

if you can show me how many B teams get to compete for a World Championship if they are considered Internationalists.



Says who ?
 
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: alligator, 22-02-2013 09:27 PM (#56)

maxi wrote:
Laura C wrote:
This is the categories debacle all over again!
The TC need to stop trying to micro manage everything.

Team selection should be down to individual areas to sort out. If an area wants to field a strong C team to go and scoop the whopping 50 each prizemoney, then I'm sure the A and B teams that have been left short of talent will have something to say about it.

And who do the TC think they are that they can make a decision on individual players across all areas. Are you going to know about an ex snooker pro that doesn't play IMs that comes in as a superleague player for e.g. Doon Valley (sorry just trying to think of an area outwith the current TCs field of 'expertise' )

How many players are going to be at CraigTara.....potentially over 600?!.......when is this list of players going to be vetted for suitability?


I always considered you quite clever Laura, setting out a criteria means the onus is taken off the TC to know every player.

The reps voted overwhelmingly to have the TC look at teams to make sure areas were not pulling fly ones.

Yous all go on here like the TC want to make things difficult, we are a committee given a task to do.

AND WE WILL CARRY OUT THAT TASK.

Remember if any area or team don't think its fair that someone is excluded then they can appeal to the body of the hall.

Without criteria how would this work if teams showed up at the events with last minute replacements?

If a team have to bring in a replacement at very last minute then the area can easy see if replacement will be eligible or not.



Indeed you carry out that task just not very well.
 
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: Laura C, 22-02-2013 10:36 PM (#57)

maxi wrote:
Laura C wrote:
This is the categories debacle all over again!
The TC need to stop trying to micro manage everything.

Team selection should be down to individual areas to sort out. If an area wants to field a strong C team to go and scoop the whopping 50 each prizemoney, then I'm sure the A and B teams that have been left short of talent will have something to say about it.

And who do the TC think they are that they can make a decision on individual players across all areas. Are you going to know about an ex snooker pro that doesn't play IMs that comes in as a superleague player for e.g. Doon Valley (sorry just trying to think of an area outwith the current TCs field of 'expertise' )

How many players are going to be at CraigTara.....potentially over 600?!.......when is this list of players going to be vetted for suitability?


I always considered you quite clever Laura, setting out a criteria means the onus is taken off the TC to know every player.

The reps voted overwhelmingly to have the TC look at teams to make sure areas were not pulling fly ones.

Yous all go on here like the TC want to make things difficult, we are a committee given a task to do.

AND WE WILL CARRY OUT THAT TASK.

Remember if any area or team don't think its fair that someone is excluded then they can appeal to the body of the hall.

Without criteria how would this work if teams showed up at the events with last minute replacements?

If a team have to bring in a replacement at very last minute then the area can easy see if replacement will be eligible or not.



You've come up with a criteria, (which is a poor one in my opinion, ) and then said you'll vet teams to ensure relative strength. On what basis?! Personal opinion?! How many people are on the TC these days? Do you think between you, you know the 1000 odd players that will comprise the supers teams in order to make this judgement.
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: knowledge, 22-02-2013 10:57 PM (#58)

maxi wrote:
The TC have agreed on the following criteria to limit on who can play with lower teams to try and make it fairer for everyone. This will evolve as time goes on.

top 16 or current A internationals or cue sport pros in B or C teams.

No top 100 or current B/youths/senior internationals or former cue sport pros in C teams.

Current = last 3 years.

TC vet teams to ensure each league's A team is stronger overall than the B team, which is stronger than the C team, which is stronger than the D team


Why not leave it at this?



TC vet teams to ensure each league's A team is stronger overall than the B team, which is stronger than the C team, which is stronger than the D team



Surely the TC have learned by now that as soon as a criteria is set, there will be an exception?

What if a guy from a weak area gets in the top 100, then flits to Glasgow or Uddy or whatever and isn't good enough for his new areas A or B team? He still has his ranking so he can't go?

Time to put this to bed.
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: alligator, 22-02-2013 11:33 PM (#59)

knowledge wrote:
maxi wrote:
The TC have agreed on the following criteria to limit on who can play with lower teams to try and make it fairer for everyone. This will evolve as time goes on.

top 16 or current A internationals or cue sport pros in B or C teams.

No top 100 or current B/youths/senior internationals or former cue sport pros in C teams.

Current = last 3 years.

TC vet teams to ensure each league's A team is stronger overall than the B team, which is stronger than the C team, which is stronger than the D team


Why not leave it at this?



TC vet teams to ensure each league's A team is stronger overall than the B team, which is stronger than the C team, which is stronger than the D team



Surely the TC have learned by now that as soon as a criteria is set, there will be an exception?

What if a guy from a weak area gets in the top 100, then flits to Glasgow or Uddy or whatever and isn't good enough for his new areas A or B team? He still has his ranking so he can't go?

Time to put this to bed.



Exactly , or if a Andy Croasdale made himself available at the last minute for a C team. Non IM Member , Non International for last 3 years , Non Cue sports
Pro for last 6. This Criteria is just rushed through so the TC especially Maxi can say we have a criteria.
 
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: maxi, 22-02-2013 11:35 PM (#60)

That area or person can appeal if that ever happens.

If we dont set this criteria then how can the TC possibly scrutinise a team if that team decide to simply draft in 3 or 4 players on the Friday of the event?

Or would you think it ok if Glasgow decided on the Friday when Pettycur Bay event is starting that Jayson, Downie, Aldo and old Mick would be as well going to play with C team since they are free that weekend?
 
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