19/11/2018 05:33
Navigation
· Home
· 2018 S15 Schedules
· Constitution
· Int. Selection Policy
· Playing Rules
· Drugs Policy
· Meetings
· Downloads
· SPA Contacts
· Site Rules
· Discussion Forum
· Contact Webteam
· Event Calendar (NEW)
IM Series
· 2018 IM Dates/Deadlines
· 2018 IM Area Draws
· 2018 IM Rankings
· 2017 IM Rankings
SPA Information
· 2018 Roll of Honour
· SPA Tour Rankings
· Ladies Tour
International Teams
· Mens
· Ladies
· Youths and Juniors
· Learning Difficulties
Member Leagues
· Affiliated Leagues
Other
· Photo Gallery
· Downloads
· Search
· Web Links
Users Online
· Guests Online: 14

· Members Online: 0

· Total Members: 2,194
· Newest Member: psimpson
Forum Threads
Newest Threads
· Missing cue
· 2018 IM#6 Qualifiers
· BI WC 2018
· S15 Squads
· Lanarkshire Singles.
Hottest Threads
· An Invite from th... [1120]
· challenge match n... [637]
· Riley's 10000 am... [430]
· Last Movie you wa... [390]
The Scottish Pool Association General SPA Announcements
TC Criteria for superleague events
Username
Password
Register FAQ Members List Today's Posts Search

Print Thread

  TC Criteria for superleague events
by: maxi, 22-02-2013 11:41 PM (#61)

alligator wrote:
knowledge wrote:
maxi wrote:
The TC have agreed on the following criteria to limit on who can play with lower teams to try and make it fairer for everyone. This will evolve as time goes on.

top 16 or current A internationals or cue sport pros in B or C teams.

No top 100 or current B/youths/senior internationals or former cue sport pros in C teams.

Current = last 3 years.

TC vet teams to ensure each league's A team is stronger overall than the B team, which is stronger than the C team, which is stronger than the D team


Why not leave it at this?



TC vet teams to ensure each league's A team is stronger overall than the B team, which is stronger than the C team, which is stronger than the D team



Surely the TC have learned by now that as soon as a criteria is set, there will be an exception?

What if a guy from a weak area gets in the top 100, then flits to Glasgow or Uddy or whatever and isn't good enough for his new areas A or B team? He still has his ranking so he can't go?

Time to put this to bed.



Exactly , or if a Andy Croasdale made himself available at the last minute for a C team. Non IM Member , Non International for last 3 years , Non Cue sports
Pro for last 6. This Criteria is just rushed through so the TC especially Maxi can say we have a criteria.


I understand the reps actually stated at the meeting in December that we shouldnt stop one player, and the examples given were they may be on holiday etc when higher league event was played.

The TC would make a decision on your example based on whether Andy being in that C team made that TEAM stronger than their A or B team.

I mean in your example perhaps Andy couldnt make the Friday of the A/B event so the captains told him just to play with C team. He would have been ok to be late if going to the football though.
 
www.scottishpool.com/images/wc2.jpg
www.lastbidz.com
http://twitter.co...
SPA Scottish Doubles Champions 2013
World Champion 2012 (Scotland Seniors Team)
Strathclyde League Singles Champion 2012
Red Triangle Singles League Champion 2012
Superleague 11 & 15 Team Champions 2012 (Team G)
Superleague 11s Challenge Champions (captain)
World Speed Pool Seniors Champion 2010
Paisley Singles Champion 2010
European Masters Senior Team Champions 2010, 2011
Superleague 15's Champions Team G 2009
Belhaven Grand Final Champion 2007
 
Edited by maxi 22-02-2013 11:44 PM
maxi
Fingers crossed!


Posts: 15050
Joined: 06.04.10
Location: Glasgow
Age: 49

RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: alligator, 22-02-2013 11:54 PM (#62)

maxi wrote:
alligator wrote:
knowledge wrote:
maxi wrote:
The TC have agreed on the following criteria to limit on who can play with lower teams to try and make it fairer for everyone. This will evolve as time goes on.

top 16 or current A internationals or cue sport pros in B or C teams.

No top 100 or current B/youths/senior internationals or former cue sport pros in C teams.

Current = last 3 years.

TC vet teams to ensure each league's A team is stronger overall than the B team, which is stronger than the C team, which is stronger than the D team


Why not leave it at this?



TC vet teams to ensure each league's A team is stronger overall than the B team, which is stronger than the C team, which is stronger than the D team



Surely the TC have learned by now that as soon as a criteria is set, there will be an exception?

What if a guy from a weak area gets in the top 100, then flits to Glasgow or Uddy or whatever and isn't good enough for his new areas A or B team? He still has his ranking so he can't go?

Time to put this to bed.



Exactly , or if a Andy Croasdale made himself available at the last minute for a C team. Non IM Member , Non International for last 3 years , Non Cue sports
Pro for last 6. This Criteria is just rushed through so the TC especially Maxi can say we have a criteria.


I understand the reps actually stated at the meeting in December that we shouldnt stop one player, and the examples given were they may be on holiday etc when higher league event was played.

The TC would make a decision on your example based on whether Andy being in that C team made that TEAM stronger than their A or B team.

I mean in your example perhaps Andy couldnt make the Friday of the A/B event so the captains told him just to play with C team. He would have been ok to be late if going to the football though.



Dont think he would have been ok going to football only the first among equals could pull
that stroke get away with it and get the top job again.
 
wait and strike when the time is right
alligator



Posts: 4581
Joined: 20.10.08
Location: glasgow

RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: tricky, 22-02-2013 11:56 PM (#63)

I think this is typical of reps not really having a clue what they have voted for.

Proposals should have been put in place prior to the vote to show the consequences. I bet there are reps out there thinking this isn't how it was portrayed at the meeting.

When will this lesson be taken aboard?
tricky



Posts: 1938
Joined: 28.01.08
Location: The Mecca

RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: maxi, 23-02-2013 12:57 AM (#64)

tricky wrote:
I think this is typical of reps not really having a clue what they have voted for.

Proposals should have been put in place prior to the vote to show the consequences. I bet there are reps out there thinking this isn't how it was portrayed at the meeting.

When will this lesson be taken aboard?


These are the minutes, pretty one sided vote and pretty clear what was happening:-

The TC have proposed a system whereby they will monitor areas teams in the various divisions in order to see fair play. It was felt by some that this was unfair as the TC should not dictate to areas how to select teams.

Steed proposed that having out in so much hard work and having been put in place by the SPA, the TC should be allowed to do this job; this was seconded by Stuart Weeks.

John Burns felt that areas should be trusted and the TC should not get involved and proposed the TC should not be allowed to interfere in team selection. This was seconded by John Brownlie.

The proposal to allow the TC won by 16 votes to 3.
 
www.scottishpool.com/images/wc2.jpg
www.lastbidz.com
http://twitter.co...
SPA Scottish Doubles Champions 2013
World Champion 2012 (Scotland Seniors Team)
Strathclyde League Singles Champion 2012
Red Triangle Singles League Champion 2012
Superleague 11 & 15 Team Champions 2012 (Team G)
Superleague 11s Challenge Champions (captain)
World Speed Pool Seniors Champion 2010
Paisley Singles Champion 2010
European Masters Senior Team Champions 2010, 2011
Superleague 15's Champions Team G 2009
Belhaven Grand Final Champion 2007
maxi
Fingers crossed!


Posts: 15050
Joined: 06.04.10
Location: Glasgow
Age: 49

RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: tricky, 23-02-2013 01:06 AM (#65)

You've (deliberately imo) missed the point I was making I see.

I understand you have to defend it but I also know you can see what I am saying. A blind man could.

A commitment was made to "monitor" these area's and now something has been hashed together and is suddenly set in stone.

What was the justification for having to monitor in the first instance? Aberdeen winning a B event? It was always going to happen.
tricky



Posts: 1938
Joined: 28.01.08
Location: The Mecca

RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: maxi, 23-02-2013 03:18 PM (#66)

Hopalong wrote:
knowledge wrote:
Unless the TC thought some of them should stay.


so promotion and relegation at the same event for an 'A' and a 'B' team from the same area is pointless then?

coz the guys relegated from the 'A' event won't be allowed to play in the 'B' event? is this correct?


Davy, this is what you asked.

If Livingston A get relegated from this event and Livingston B got promoted then next year Livingston A will be in first division and B team in the Premier, the A team which is now in first division must be stronger than B team.

you wouldn't be allowed to send dollop etc back with B team to premier event.

I think this makes perfect sense and fail to see your point or your confusion?
 
www.scottishpool.com/images/wc2.jpg
www.lastbidz.com
http://twitter.co...
SPA Scottish Doubles Champions 2013
World Champion 2012 (Scotland Seniors Team)
Strathclyde League Singles Champion 2012
Red Triangle Singles League Champion 2012
Superleague 11 & 15 Team Champions 2012 (Team G)
Superleague 11s Challenge Champions (captain)
World Speed Pool Seniors Champion 2010
Paisley Singles Champion 2010
European Masters Senior Team Champions 2010, 2011
Superleague 15's Champions Team G 2009
Belhaven Grand Final Champion 2007
maxi
Fingers crossed!


Posts: 15050
Joined: 06.04.10
Location: Glasgow
Age: 49

RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: maxi, 23-02-2013 03:21 PM (#67)

This isn't much different from Glasgow B2 winning Pettycur Bay a couple of years ago, next year the B2 must go to Craig Tara and the first B team get sent to Pettycur.
 
www.scottishpool.com/images/wc2.jpg
www.lastbidz.com
http://twitter.co...
SPA Scottish Doubles Champions 2013
World Champion 2012 (Scotland Seniors Team)
Strathclyde League Singles Champion 2012
Red Triangle Singles League Champion 2012
Superleague 11 & 15 Team Champions 2012 (Team G)
Superleague 11s Challenge Champions (captain)
World Speed Pool Seniors Champion 2010
Paisley Singles Champion 2010
European Masters Senior Team Champions 2010, 2011
Superleague 15's Champions Team G 2009
Belhaven Grand Final Champion 2007
maxi
Fingers crossed!


Posts: 15050
Joined: 06.04.10
Location: Glasgow
Age: 49

RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: holton, 23-02-2013 09:34 PM (#68)

I think the concern is the migration of players between the teams. It has been stated that the A team must be stronger than the B team. But if the A team is relegated how will the rule be enforced as in some cases the criteria is subjective and based on opinion.
User Avatar
holton



Posts: 28
Joined: 11.02.08

RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: Woody, 23-02-2013 10:00 PM (#69)

This i dont get you could pick all the superstars in the world they might not get on or gel as a team nothing worse than 11 big time charlies. You then have the b team thats solid and play as a team and are a team. Your telling me the tc will polute the B team with superstars from the relegated A team if the B team got promoted?
 
Am more confussed than a baby racoon!!!!!
 
Edited by Woody 23-02-2013 10:01 PM
User Avatar
Woody
General Member


Posts: 5186
Joined: 14.01.08
Location: The top of Callander
Age: 41

RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: maxi, 24-02-2013 08:54 AM (#70)

Woody wrote:
This i dont get you could pick all the superstars in the world they might not get on or gel as a team nothing worse than 11 big time charlies. You then have the b team thats solid and play as a team and are a team. Your telling me the tc will polute the B team with superstars from the relegated A team if the B team got promoted?


Can you read plain English?

A>B>C>D

That's the order of strength that areas should pick their team regardless of what division they are.

To answer previous question, yes the TC would expect a certain amount of players may drop from A to B if they were demoted.
 
www.scottishpool.com/images/wc2.jpg
www.lastbidz.com
http://twitter.co...
SPA Scottish Doubles Champions 2013
World Champion 2012 (Scotland Seniors Team)
Strathclyde League Singles Champion 2012
Red Triangle Singles League Champion 2012
Superleague 11 & 15 Team Champions 2012 (Team G)
Superleague 11s Challenge Champions (captain)
World Speed Pool Seniors Champion 2010
Paisley Singles Champion 2010
European Masters Senior Team Champions 2010, 2011
Superleague 15's Champions Team G 2009
Belhaven Grand Final Champion 2007
maxi
Fingers crossed!


Posts: 15050
Joined: 06.04.10
Location: Glasgow
Age: 49

RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: Citizen Smith, 24-02-2013 09:19 AM (#71)

Glad that's all been cleared up , seems pretty straight forward to me ,
Team picked
Money paid
Minibus booked
Just need to get Dalgetys debt suspension lifted and we're good to go !!

pintpintpintpintpintpintpintpintpint
User Avatar
Citizen Smith



Posts: 194
Joined: 16.10.09
Location: edinburgh

RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: smarties, 25-02-2013 06:10 PM (#72)

maxi wrote:

To answer previous question, yes the TC would expect a certain amount of players may drop from A to B if they were demoted.




With the word may in there, can you clarify that it would be the team to decide this and not the T.C. Maxi?
smarties
General Member


Posts: 851
Joined: 09.03.08
Location: livingston

RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: maxi, 25-02-2013 06:15 PM (#73)

smarties wrote:
maxi wrote:

To answer previous question, yes the TC would expect a certain amount of players may drop from A to B if they were demoted.




With the word may in there, can you clarify that it would be the team to decide this and not the T.C. Maxi?


Don't think your reading the word in the proper context of the sentence there Malky.
 
www.scottishpool.com/images/wc2.jpg
www.lastbidz.com
http://twitter.co...
SPA Scottish Doubles Champions 2013
World Champion 2012 (Scotland Seniors Team)
Strathclyde League Singles Champion 2012
Red Triangle Singles League Champion 2012
Superleague 11 & 15 Team Champions 2012 (Team G)
Superleague 11s Challenge Champions (captain)
World Speed Pool Seniors Champion 2010
Paisley Singles Champion 2010
European Masters Senior Team Champions 2010, 2011
Superleague 15's Champions Team G 2009
Belhaven Grand Final Champion 2007
maxi
Fingers crossed!


Posts: 15050
Joined: 06.04.10
Location: Glasgow
Age: 49

RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: smarties, 26-02-2013 12:31 AM (#74)

maxi wrote:
smarties wrote:
maxi wrote:

To answer previous question, yes the TC would expect a certain amount of players may drop from A to B if they were demoted.




With the word may in there, can you clarify that it would be the team to decide this and not the T.C. Maxi?


Don't think your reading the word in the proper context of the sentence there Malky.



That is why i asked the questionCAN YOU CLARIFY, i never put please right enough, so PLEASE
smarties
General Member


Posts: 851
Joined: 09.03.08
Location: livingston

RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: maxi, 26-02-2013 01:03 AM (#75)

smarties wrote:
maxi wrote:
smarties wrote:
maxi wrote:

To answer previous question, yes the TC would expect a certain amount of players may drop from A to B if they were demoted.




With the word may in there, can you clarify that it would be the team to decide this and not the T.C. Maxi?


Don't think your reading the word in the proper context of the sentence there Malky.



That is why i asked the questionCAN YOU CLARIFY, i never put please right enough, so PLEASE


So your asking if the TC will decide if players drop from an A to a B team? That seems so ridiculous that it would be pointless answering that seriously Malky.

Me posting saying the TC would expect a certain amount of players may drop from A to B needs absolutely no clarification of anything.
 
www.scottishpool.com/images/wc2.jpg
www.lastbidz.com
http://twitter.co...
SPA Scottish Doubles Champions 2013
World Champion 2012 (Scotland Seniors Team)
Strathclyde League Singles Champion 2012
Red Triangle Singles League Champion 2012
Superleague 11 & 15 Team Champions 2012 (Team G)
Superleague 11s Challenge Champions (captain)
World Speed Pool Seniors Champion 2010
Paisley Singles Champion 2010
European Masters Senior Team Champions 2010, 2011
Superleague 15's Champions Team G 2009
Belhaven Grand Final Champion 2007
maxi
Fingers crossed!


Posts: 15050
Joined: 06.04.10
Location: Glasgow
Age: 49

RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: Triple xXx, 26-02-2013 02:04 AM (#76)

alligator wrote:
maxi wrote:
Its always been the case Renzie and you know.

its said every year the only reason B teams exist in International pool is to put bums in beds and help get the numbers attending to get that level of sponsorship.

if you can show me how many B teams get to compete for a World Championship if they are considered Internationalists.



Says who ?


Ay maxi says who? Teams from different nations competing in an international event regardless a b c d.

Surely still internationals regardless of how you downgrade it..

N well done TC for having some kinda bolls n having a criteria. Few tweeeeeeeks n bang on..time will sort it I'm sure....
User Avatar
Triple xXx
General Member


Posts: 598
Joined: 13.03.08
Location: glasgow
Age: 38

RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: Triple xXx, 26-02-2013 02:06 AM (#77)

GYTO ya melted wellies
User Avatar
Triple xXx
General Member


Posts: 598
Joined: 13.03.08
Location: glasgow
Age: 38

RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: smarties, 26-02-2013 10:51 PM (#78)

maxi wrote:
smarties wrote:
maxi wrote:
smarties wrote:
maxi wrote:

To answer previous question, yes the TC would expect a certain amount of players may drop from A to B if they were demoted.




With the word may in there, can you clarify that it would be the team to decide this and not the T.C. Maxi?


Don't think your reading the word in the proper context of the sentence there Malky.



That is why i asked the questionCAN YOU CLARIFY, i never put please right enough, so PLEASE


So your asking if the TC will decide if players drop from an A to a B team? That seems so ridiculous that it would be pointless answering that seriously Malky.

Me posting saying the TC would expect a certain amount of players may drop from A to B needs absolutely no clarification of anything.






All you had to say was, yes the team will decide.
smarties
General Member


Posts: 851
Joined: 09.03.08
Location: livingston

RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: maxi, 26-02-2013 11:18 PM (#79)

The main point Malky is that i shouldnt have to, as absolutely nowhere in my sentence do i even slightly hint at it being any other way.
 
www.scottishpool.com/images/wc2.jpg
www.lastbidz.com
http://twitter.co...
SPA Scottish Doubles Champions 2013
World Champion 2012 (Scotland Seniors Team)
Strathclyde League Singles Champion 2012
Red Triangle Singles League Champion 2012
Superleague 11 & 15 Team Champions 2012 (Team G)
Superleague 11s Challenge Champions (captain)
World Speed Pool Seniors Champion 2010
Paisley Singles Champion 2010
European Masters Senior Team Champions 2010, 2011
Superleague 15's Champions Team G 2009
Belhaven Grand Final Champion 2007
maxi
Fingers crossed!


Posts: 15050
Joined: 06.04.10
Location: Glasgow
Age: 49

RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: Laura C, 27-02-2013 01:41 PM (#80)

maxi wrote:
Woody wrote:
This i dont get you could pick all the superstars in the world they might not get on or gel as a team nothing worse than 11 big time charlies. You then have the b team thats solid and play as a team and are a team. Your telling me the tc will polute the B team with superstars from the relegated A team if the B team got promoted?


Can you read plain English?

A>B>C>D

That's the order of strength that areas should pick their team regardless of what division they are.

To answer previous question, yes the TC would expect a certain amount of players may drop from A to B if they were demoted.


The problem with A>B>C>D is that you are making that assumption of relative strength based on indiviudal performance, generally through rankings / IM performance which is all singles events of at least races to 6. You are then applying this logic to a team event of one frame pool.
We have all seen teams in the past that are made up of individual superstars go to the Supers and they have not done as well as other teams that on indiivudal achievements aren't as strong.

It's a team managers job to know who works well together and pick their teams accordingly to maximise their chances in all events that they compete in. A few people in the TC cannot, and should not, be able to overrule this on the basis of their perception of individual players strengths/successes.
Laura C
General Member


Posts: 990
Joined: 25.02.10
Location: Glasgow

Options
Jump to Forum:
Forum powered by fusionBoard
Share this Thread
URL:
BBcode:
HTML:
Login
Username

Password



Forgotten your password?
Request a new one here.
Events
<< November 2018 >>
Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa Su
      1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30    
Shoutbox
You must login to post a message.

22/10/2018
When the seniors draw getting done?

15/10/2018
Anyone know if there is any provisional date for the super 11s premier next year?

27/09/2018
Cheers FCBash

23/09/2018
Trying to get it up and running - John working on it.

22/09/2018
Any streams for the ims today

21/09/2018
No dress code for the qualifiers Davy.

18/09/2018
I take it that their is no dress code for the 15s qualifiers folks

14/09/2018
Will the draw for 15s play-offs be done this week? Only 3 weeks away .

11/09/2018
Cheers bash, the deadline for Supers payments is now behind us, can't the draw be done sooner? Ta

10/09/2018
IM5 online now. Supers will likely be a couple of weeks

Render time: 0.38 seconds Original theme by Nick Jones Modyfied into Gillette_Blue by Harly 70,464,276 unique visits