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TC Criteria for superleague events
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  TC Criteria for superleague events
by: Sting, 27-02-2013 01:47 PM (#81)

Laura C wrote:
maxi wrote:
Woody wrote:
This i dont get you could pick all the superstars in the world they might not get on or gel as a team nothing worse than 11 big time charlies. You then have the b team thats solid and play as a team and are a team. Your telling me the tc will polute the B team with superstars from the relegated A team if the B team got promoted?


Can you read plain English?

A>B>C>D

That's the order of strength that areas should pick their team regardless of what division they are.

To answer previous question, yes the TC would expect a certain amount of players may drop from A to B if they were demoted.


The problem with A>B>C>D is that you are making that assumption of relative strength based on indiviudal performance, generally through rankings / IM performance which is all singles events of at least races to 6. You are then applying this logic to a team event of one frame pool.
We have all seen teams in the past that are made up of individual superstars go to the Supers and they have not done as well as other teams that on indiivudal achievements aren't as strong.

It's a team managers job to know who works well together and pick their teams accordingly to maximise their chances in all events that they compete in. A few people in the TC cannot, and should not, be able to overrule this on the basis of their perception of individual players strengths/successes.


Surely the best player first to x amount is the best player first to 1. If Player A is consitently outperforming Player B first to 6 surely Player A is deemed the stronger player.
 
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: sweeper, 27-02-2013 02:21 PM (#82)

Sting wrote:
Laura C wrote:
maxi wrote:
Woody wrote:
This i dont get you could pick all the superstars in the world they might not get on or gel as a team nothing worse than 11 big time charlies. You then have the b team thats solid and play as a team and are a team. Your telling me the tc will polute the B team with superstars from the relegated A team if the B team got promoted?


Can you read plain English?

A>B>C>D

That's the order of strength that areas should pick their team regardless of what division they are.

To answer previous question, yes the TC would expect a certain amount of players may drop from A to B if they were demoted.


The problem with A>B>C>D is that you are making that assumption of relative strength based on indiviudal performance, generally through rankings / IM performance which is all singles events of at least races to 6. You are then applying this logic to a team event of one frame pool.
We have all seen teams in the past that are made up of individual superstars go to the Supers and they have not done as well as other teams that on indiivudal achievements aren't as strong.

It's a team managers job to know who works well together and pick their teams accordingly to maximise their chances in all events that they compete in. A few people in the TC cannot, and should not, be able to overrule this on the basis of their perception of individual players strengths/successes.


Surely the best player first to x amount is the best player first to 1. If Player A is consitently outperforming Player B first to 6 surely Player A is deemed the stronger player.


You would think so but that is not the case.
Some players find more pressure playing only one frame with there team relying on them to produce the goods and under perform.
sweeper



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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: tricky, 27-02-2013 02:25 PM (#83)

sweeper wrote:
Sting wrote:
Laura C wrote:
maxi wrote:
Woody wrote:
This i dont get you could pick all the superstars in the world they might not get on or gel as a team nothing worse than 11 big time charlies. You then have the b team thats solid and play as a team and are a team. Your telling me the tc will polute the B team with superstars from the relegated A team if the B team got promoted?


Can you read plain English?

A>B>C>D

That's the order of strength that areas should pick their team regardless of what division they are.

To answer previous question, yes the TC would expect a certain amount of players may drop from A to B if they were demoted.


The problem with A>B>C>D is that you are making that assumption of relative strength based on indiviudal performance, generally through rankings / IM performance which is all singles events of at least races to 6. You are then applying this logic to a team event of one frame pool.
We have all seen teams in the past that are made up of individual superstars go to the Supers and they have not done as well as other teams that on indiivudal achievements aren't as strong.

It's a team managers job to know who works well together and pick their teams accordingly to maximise their chances in all events that they compete in. A few people in the TC cannot, and should not, be able to overrule this on the basis of their perception of individual players strengths/successes.


Surely the best player first to x amount is the best player first to 1. If Player A is consitently outperforming Player B first to 6 surely Player A is deemed the stronger player.


You would think so but that is not the case.
Some players find more pressure playing only one frame with there team relying on them to produce the goods and under perform.


So you are effectively agreeing?

Some players thrive on playing for a team and getting to 1 with all your mates behind you is easy. Surely that's the converse here.
tricky



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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: maxi, 27-02-2013 06:24 PM (#84)

What complete nonsense Laura.

One frame pool can throw up shock defeats or wins, but the best players are still the best players whether its one frame or 40 frames.

What you are trying to say here is that the TC wouldn't have the knowledge or right if the current Uddingston A and B teams were swapped about....

Absolute nonsense.
 
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: alligator, 27-02-2013 06:39 PM (#85)

maxi wrote:
What complete nonsense Laura.

One frame pool can throw up shock defeats or wins, but the best players are still the best players whether its one frame or 40 frames.

What you are trying to say here is that the TC wouldn't have the knowledge or right if the current Uddingston A and B teams were swapped about....

Absolute nonsense.
. Don't agree with much you say however you are bang on about this.
 
wait and strike when the time is right
alligator



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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: Sting, 27-02-2013 06:41 PM (#86)

alligator wrote:
maxi wrote:
What complete nonsense Laura.

One frame pool can throw up shock defeats or wins, but the best players are still the best players whether its one frame or 40 frames.

What you are trying to say here is that the TC wouldn't have the knowledge or right if the current Uddingston A and B teams were swapped about....

Absolute nonsense.
. Don't agree with much you say however you are bang on about this.


X2
 
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: Sting, 27-02-2013 06:52 PM (#87)

I think the simple thing is would you leave paul mc or goobs out of uddy and replace them with 2 steady one frame players?
 
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: Woody, 27-02-2013 07:17 PM (#88)

Sting wrote:
I think the simple thing is would you leave paul mc or goobs out of uddy and replace them with 2 steady one frame players?

Depend how funny the steady players were.
 
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: Laura C, 27-02-2013 08:09 PM (#89)

alligator wrote:
maxi wrote:
What complete nonsense Laura.

One frame pool can throw up shock defeats or wins, but the best players are still the best players whether its one frame or 40 frames.

What you are trying to say here is that the TC wouldn't have the knowledge or right if the current Uddingston A and B teams were swapped about....

Absolute nonsense.
. Don't agree with much you say however you are bang on about this.


Why aren't the top 5 players in the rankings automatic picks for international teams then?
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: alligator, 27-02-2013 08:44 PM (#90)

Maybe because some are unavailable for selection. Come on Laura you can do better than that .
 
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: Laura C, 28-02-2013 09:55 AM (#91)

alligator wrote:
Maybe because some are unavailable for selection. Come on Laura you can do better than that .


I said why are they not automatic picks not why don't they comprise the current team! Read Renzie!
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: alligator, 28-02-2013 10:03 AM (#92)

The top 5 are automatic picks for International Teams Laura.
 
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: Laura C, 28-02-2013 10:15 AM (#93)

I've not got the best memory but I'm fairly sure this clause was removed from the constitution not that long ago.
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: maxi, 28-02-2013 10:35 AM (#94)

Laura C wrote:
I've not got the best memory but I'm fairly sure this clause was removed from the constitution not that long ago.


Only for 5 man team Internationals.

The ranking still guarantee spots in the B teams.
 
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: Laura C, 28-02-2013 10:49 AM (#95)

Ok, so I'll take this slow just so I understand properly. There is NO vetting of international A team picks. Less than half of B team international places is prescribed by criteria. BUT the TC deem it appropriate to sit and go through super league teams to ensure an overly prescriptive criteria is met and teams are "of appropriate relative strength". (Based on the opinion of 3/4 people)

I'd be really curious to look at rankings and compare these to international team picks. Fortunately for the sake of putting this conversation to bed, I don't have time!!

I've made my point. I don't think the TC should be allowed to interfere. I think it's biased, unfair and completely unnecessary. But it's been voted against. C'est la vie.
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: alligator, 28-02-2013 10:49 AM (#96)

Apology accepted Laura.
 
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: Laura C, 28-02-2013 10:51 AM (#97)

alligator wrote:
Apology accepted Laura.


For what?! I thought we didn't class B team players as internationalists!
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: alligator, 28-02-2013 10:52 AM (#98)

Would you also be keen to phone round the highest ranked players to find out their availability for selection . Come on Laura quit while your behind .
 
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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: alligator, 28-02-2013 10:54 AM (#99)

Laura C wrote:
alligator wrote:
Apology accepted Laura.


For what?! I thought we didn't class B team players as internationalists!
. I know Laura that was a shocking statement from Maxi even he must regret that one.
 
wait and strike when the time is right
alligator



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RE: TC Criteria for superleague events
by: Laura C, 28-02-2013 11:11 AM (#100)

alligator wrote:
Would you also be keen to phone round the highest ranked players to find out their availability for selection . Come on Laura quit while your behind .


No, but I'm willing to bet I could go through the teams and put every players rank next to them and it wouldn't follow a nice pattern down through the teams. I'll even stop at 100 to avoid the "ranking system is flawed" argument.

The fact of the matter is a system is used as and when it suits certain people and then rubbished when considered within a different context!
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