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The Scottish Pool Association General Fundraising
Bah Humbug
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  Bah Humbug
by: knowledge, 28-06-2010 10:01 AM (#21)

As I said, I can see both points of view.
 
Edited by knowledge 28-06-2010 10:45 AM
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RE: Bah Humbug
by: the cue78, 28-06-2010 10:29 AM (#22)

Claire wrote:
Ok purely so that my "silence" can't be misinterpreted, i disagree with money being taken out for other charities. The idea came about to raise money for a specific event in order that for the 1st time EVER the Scotland players can represent their country and it only cost them time/holidays/spending money/relationships and not an arm and a leg as well. Any talk of players winning thousands and thousands of pounds and giving nothing back is intended to be nothing other than inflammatory and applies to very few if any of the full delegation. I for one dread to think how much i have paid over the years in order to represent Scotland at events and while i continue to do so and consider it a privilege, its not ideal. Apart from anything else, by raising funds to help it means that it is no longer an event purely for the better off players which is surely a positive thing? As for charities i donate to various charities, two of them by direct debit - how about you? As for the couple of players who do make some sort of living - how many of them are really getting rich from this - and at what personal/long term career cost - do you want to swap places with them?

High horses springs to mind...

i agree with most points ure saying there claire but not all.........
yes fair enough this is to help out our youths and juniors in france to help with expenses but this money is not coming out of 1 persons pocket......this is from a few hundred ppl which works out to be very little per person but very substantial in a whole.......now i am not requesting that they give half or even a set percentage of the proceedings to charity but give something like say.....100.......believe it or not that could go a long way with certain charities to help the less fortunate........as john said earlier there are kids in the set up who have won plenty of dosh from tournaments but wot is a little to charity?
ull get more respect from it.
 
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RE: Bah Humbug
by: the cue78, 28-06-2010 10:49 AM (#23)

maxi wrote:
Moving this thread along as Stevie's suggestion is dead in the water.

What is going to be the format for the event itself. I understand it's a 3 person team, so is it purely 3 songs, 1 by each member and that's it, points are totalled up for all 3 and that's the teams points based on the 3 categories you mentioned before?

It's just someone said on Saturday they heard it was 3 songs as above and then a song they all sing together...

are they getting paid for it?
 
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RE: Bah Humbug
by: maxi, 28-06-2010 12:08 PM (#24)

the cue78 wrote:
are they getting paid for it?


Is who getting paid for what?
 
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RE: Bah Humbug
by: the cue78, 28-06-2010 12:41 PM (#25)

maxi wrote:
the cue78 wrote:
are they getting paid for it?


Is who getting paid for what?

joke.........

nuff said on the subject........the spas true colours have finally shown.......absolute disgrace to the game.END OF!!
 
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RE: Bah Humbug
by: alligator, 28-06-2010 12:44 PM (#26)

how many tickets you wanting stevie.
 
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RE: Bah Humbug
by: Bash, 21-07-2010 04:54 PM (#27)

Claire wrote:
Ok purely so that my "silence" can't be misinterpreted, i disagree with money being taken out for other charities. The idea came about to raise money for a specific event in order that for the 1st time EVER the Scotland players can represent their country and it only cost them time/holidays/spending money/relationships and not an arm and a leg as well. Any talk of players winning thousands and thousands of pounds and giving nothing back is intended to be nothing other than inflammatory and applies to very few if any of the full delegation. I for one dread to think how much i have paid over the years in order to represent Scotland at events and while i continue to do so and consider it a privilege, its not ideal. Apart from anything else, by raising funds to help it means that it is no longer an event purely for the better off players which is surely a positive thing? As for charities i donate to various charities, two of them by direct debit - how about you? As for the couple of players who do make some sort of living - how many of them are really getting rich from this - and at what personal/long term career cost - do you want to swap places with them?

High horses springs to mind...


Banging the same drum again, Claire I see. Items like this have absolutely nothing to do with us wanting to swap places with dole-dodgers who have nothing better to do with their time than play pool, and get mugs to put cash up for them to play in events...... nothing of the sort.

Please separate life from pool. Done that? Good, let's move on.

Ok, so we have people in the mens game who are making a reasonable amount of cash out of the rest of us donating each event - and then we have to put our hands in our pockets again to send the people who already have all our cash to another event?

Seriously?

I put a stat up the last time the International fund was raised - the top 5 players in the IM rankings had cleared over 16k between them in a season. Are these the same guys who are too skint to go to France if we don't pay their way? Perhaps those who are so badly struggling should look to go out and get a job like the rest of us and pay their own way rather than relaying on handouts.

And before we start with the rubbish about it being tough times and there being no jobs available - websites like Monster, S1Jobs, Stepstone and various agencies still seem to be doing all rather well..... do we think there might be jobs out there, but some are just not fussed about getting them?

Maybe closer to the mark?

I also contribute to 2 charities by direct debit on a monthly basis; WRVS and Quarriers I believe. Not a lot, but I do what I can.

This is different though, we are not talking about people who cannot help themselves, in general. I woudl think that if anything we should be giving the cash to the kids - those who are too young to earn enough money to get to events like France.



That said, this was billed as an event for the International Fund - and as such no-one can have a complaint about it if they choose to go as this was announced beforehand. We all know. We can choose to hand over cash or not.


Perhaps any hand-outs from the International fund should be balanced ahgainst winnings? i.e. If you ahve won 5k this year from pool, you get 0. If you ahve won 0, you get your fair share of the raised funds. It's kinda like means testing - but all based on what you do, or not do in pool.

Like I said, life and pool are separate.
 
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RE: Bah Humbug
by: maxi, 21-07-2010 05:37 PM (#28)

Why not means test it against your TOTAL earnings, pool and work? Would that be more reasonable?

And your argument only really rings true for the Mens A team. How much have the players in the Ladies team, Seniors team, U23 team, U18 team won collectively over this current season?

Ten bob and a lucky bag is the answer Pfft

Your forgetting this fund is not just sending the cream of Scottish Pool, ie Scotland Mens A team but a lot of other players who win very little in prizemoney from the game.

Allied to the fact they are travelling over to play in a World Championships where they have the potential to win zero, zilch, nada in terms of monetary prizes.
 
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RE: Bah Humbug
by: Bash, 21-07-2010 06:15 PM (#29)

Did you see the bit where I said that if you'd not won anything out of pool, then you should get your cut.......?

If however, you have already waltzed away with 5-6k of people's hard earned over the period for which the selection was based, then perhaps you should get less (or nothing)?
 
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RE: Bah Humbug
by: maxi, 21-07-2010 06:24 PM (#30)

Did you see the bit where is said total income could be considered.

What is right about saying to someone who has won 5k at pool but on the dole so had total income of say 10k (have absolutely no idea how much you get on dole) and on other hand tell someone they get a free gratis trip and they are on a salary of 100k???

Think before you type Bash. Just once.
 
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RE: Bah Humbug
by: alligator, 21-07-2010 06:33 PM (#31)

64.35 a week maxi.thats job seekers allowance.dole dodger lol bash you are such a snob.
 
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RE: Bah Humbug
by: Bash, 21-07-2010 06:52 PM (#32)

I just see 786 people donating every year to a similar top 5 - and that top 5 makes up a fair bit of our team. So after we have been charitable all year, for years, why should we give out further cash to those who already benefit from our continued charity?

If someone has done well in their life, through hard work, and they work every day - to compete in events all year against guys who do not work and only play pool on the same "playing field"..... are they not at a massive disadvantage when it comes to pool?

Those of us who have worked hard at life get our rewards, those who chose to work hard at pool ahve theirs. Why should The former give up cash for the latter? What have the latter done to deserve our money? Beat us at the game at which they are essentially professional against an amateur? Big whoop!

If we've to be charitable towards them - how about they do the same back, and give starts to all the rest of us in events? How about that? Unlikely I'd wager.


In life, you choose your path - they've chosen theirs and now want a handout when it suits? No ta, don't see it that way. Save your pool winnings, and use them. The SPA could hold back a % of the top 5's winnings for them, to be held in trust for events like France.

Also unlikely to happen.
 
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RE: Bah Humbug
by: maxi, 21-07-2010 07:13 PM (#33)

Why are you so one sided Bash.

1. You say its an unlevel playing field due to all they do is play pool so why dont they give start.

Turn up in Rileys Stirling this weekend and you will see that very thing happening.

2. You say save your pool winnings and use them.

If you have chosen a career path then why not save your money and use that.

I see you are only targetting the Mens A team and conveniently brushed over the other 20 odd players that are going with various teams......hmmmm.
 
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RE: Bah Humbug
by: alligator, 21-07-2010 07:14 PM (#34)

used to be steed snr fell on hard times to many bad beats.looking for a sponsor are you interested my friend.
 
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RE: Bah Humbug
by: Steed Snr, 21-07-2010 07:33 PM (#35)

alligator wrote:
used to be steed snr fell on hard times to many bad beats.looking for a sponsor are you interested my friend.
would it be tax deductible
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RE: Bah Humbug
by: alligator, 21-07-2010 07:39 PM (#36)

dont pay any tax at poker steed snr.hope this means you will consider it.think i can make us a lot of money.
 
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RE: Bah Humbug
by: Steed Snr, 21-07-2010 08:01 PM (#37)

alligator wrote:
dont pay any tax at poker steed snr.hope this means you will consider it.think i can make us a lot of money.
could you send me your SNG stats and cashgame stats for the last year and would i have to tell the broo i might be about to cut there grass
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RE: Bah Humbug
by: alligator, 21-07-2010 09:43 PM (#38)

i am not on the broo steed snr but my son is thats why i know the figures.you want to sponsor me or not.
 
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RE: Bah Humbug
by: knowledge, 21-07-2010 11:06 PM (#39)

maxi wrote:
Did you see the bit where is said total income could be considered.

What is right about saying to someone who has won 5k at pool but on the dole so had total income of say 10k (have absolutely no idea how much you get on dole) and on other hand tell someone they get a free gratis trip and they are on a salary of 100k???

Think before you type Bash. Just once.


That wouldn't be the case Maxi because that person would have declared the 5k to the dole surely?

Let's face it, if you're going to a bona fide WC to represent your country you shouldn't have to pay. Not in a real sport. Sadly ours is not a real sport, as recently proven our national association cannot even conduct a vote, or worse cannot even alter it when proven wrong.

International players then make it clear they find the debate about the rights and wrongs of this boring. That in essence is why the game is gubbed. It is badly run and top players only come out the woodwork when something is in it for them.

Is it in fact a bona fide WC for that matter.

Probably not.

How many "sports" have a WC that carries no prizemoney?
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RE: Bah Humbug
by: maxi, 22-07-2010 07:29 AM (#40)

9 ball for years have given nothing but medals at their team events for Europeans and the like.

But the way the still entice the very top players is by giving the top finishers in the singles event automatic entry to the high prize funded singles events later in that year.
 
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