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An Invite from the SEPF
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  An Invite from the SEPF
by: The Islander, 17-08-2010 11:33 AM (#121)

FlyingScotsman wrote:
Your mate in taffland is correct but a few years out, all players have been playing together any rules for years now, only difference is that the best Welsh players have now decided to play in the WEPF WC at blackpool and now can no longer play in the BB WC for a number of years.


Is that a WEPF imposed rule or a BB imposed rule?

FlyingScotsman wrote:
It is true that I feel strongly about having one set of rules.


You would think this would be small issue on the grounds that the two rule sets are very close anyway. Pity not more people think that way.

FlyingScotsman wrote:
Scotland would then lose out on those same players representing Scotland at the BB Wc as they along with the Welsh players cannot play in two WC under the rules of the WPA/BB.


It would appear that the answer to my first question above is that it is a WPA imposed rule. Perhaps we should approach the WPA about that. Or am I inerpreting this incorrectly?
 
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RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: Bash, 17-08-2010 11:35 AM (#122)

martinc wrote:
Bash wrote:
maxi wrote:
When exactly was the choice policy introduced by the SPA Yvonne?



You keep banging on about this point - but I think the real question is when did the SPA become REALLY attractive to SEPF members? I think the answer to that question is less than 3 years......

Given that, and the fact that the choice policy has only been a barrier for a short time, we should absolutely keep it in place.


I think the SEPF / Aberdeen whatever you want it called is also very attractive to the SPA, given the amount of discussion that goes on about it, a couple of prominent members were up to visit Aberdeen only a few months back to promote the SPA to myself and a few of the players that were there, and Ross has arranged an ISP event in Aberdeen, whic hi know a few of the guys are looking forward to.


To my understanding Aberdeen is not the SEPF - do you agree?

I understand that Aberdeen as an area, and group of leagues would be interesting to the SPA - we are interested in organiscally growing our membership. The point has not come howvever where we need to look at inorganic forms of growth - and compromising our principles.

The amount of chat that goes on about it is generally put forward by a handful of individuals - a lot of the chat comes from Fife, hence my earlier comments.

Promoting the SPA is a very different thing to dissolving a choice policy. I hope you understand that.

Ross is a business man, he will take events to places where he feels that he can hold successful events, and make some cash. Doesn't make him a bad person - it's his living - and that'll be why he's holding an event in the NE of Scotland.
 
Serve no master, but your own ambition.
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Location: Lanarkshire

RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: alligator, 17-08-2010 11:41 AM (#123)

Omg we are all being a little niave today are we not. Spa have choice policy, who benefits, the promoters of other tournaments benefit.

Maxi benefits from running tournaments with no restrictions. Wait for it Ross when he ran his tour had many world rules players and sepf players on his tour. As someone alluded to earlier do we ban the 9 ball players they might choose 9 ball over bb if we bring in the choice policy they will have to pick beetween the two.

The choice policy is to protect investment. just in case the sepf take some players or offer better tournaments for players we have this ridiculous policy. Ireland, England, Wales, Northern Ireland are all wrong. I dont think so.

As for your all treated the same quote evo how much help, funding did the LD team get to play in their WC this year. I will answer that nothing,zilch,zero,hee haw.

World games are you kidding me on. The eukpf,eba,bi, have not covered themselves in glory ever. We the SPA are members of the eba and they have dragged their feet never got bigger and better never improved never edited tv events properly. All you hear at their events is moaning and groaning. Why do we go you ask because the players of each country have a great rapport with each other. It would be great if for once they could reward the players with a great tournament.
 
wait and strike when the time is right
 
Edited by maxi 17-08-2010 11:50 AM
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RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: Staffe, 17-08-2010 12:01 PM (#124)

Bash wrote:
maxi wrote:
When exactly was the choice policy introduced by the SPA Yvonne?



You keep banging on about this point - but I think the real question is when did the SPA become REALLY attractive to SEPF members? I think the answer to that question is less than 3 years......

Given that, and the fact that the choice policy has only been a barrier for a short time, we should absolutely keep it in place.


Bash, why do you say the SPA has become attractive to the SEPF, what do you think the SEPF want from the SPA. ???????
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RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: Claire, 17-08-2010 12:03 PM (#125)

...and so it deteriorates into a slanging match with offence caused and no doubt offence taken! Also quite patronising Renzie to suggest that we're all naive just because we don't have your cynical point of view babe. My personal opinion has absolutely nothing to do with protecting any investments and i'd love to chat this through with you at length as i'm confident that there would be holes all through the logic. I feel that by losing the choice policy we would dillute the strength that has been built up as an organisation, strengthen the SEPF which ultimately strengthens WR/EPA or whatever they are called which locks us in to the ongoing cycle of two organisations rather than one. Players playing in both dillutes BOTH organisations and does not push anyone discuss any unity.

I feel slightly soiled in saying it but i agree with most of what Bash said! Angry
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RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: Bash, 17-08-2010 12:11 PM (#126)

Staffe wrote:
Bash wrote:
maxi wrote:
When exactly was the choice policy introduced by the SPA Yvonne?



You keep banging on about this point - but I think the real question is when did the SPA become REALLY attractive to SEPF members? I think the answer to that question is less than 3 years......

Given that, and the fact that the choice policy has only been a barrier for a short time, we should absolutely keep it in place.


Bash, why do you say the SPA has become attractive to the SEPF, what do you think the SEPF want from the SPA. ???????


You have misread me. I have said that the SPA events are attractive to the SEPF members not specifically the SEPF organisation.
 
Serve no master, but your own ambition.
Bash



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Joined: 10.12.07
Location: Lanarkshire

RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: Dek, 17-08-2010 12:14 PM (#127)

[b]Bash wrote

This has to be one of the worst posts ever on the topic. Are you serious? A player taking an association to court over loss of earnings on a rule that they were in full knowledge of when they joined??! So, by the same token could the guys on the IPA take Harwood to court for the rule where they cannot play in an event with more than 3k prizemoney without his explicit permission?

Aye, ATB.

There is no benefit for the SPA as an association - which is run by the players by the way, not by a few people - to allow their members to play SEPF events. There is goodness for the SEPF for the lifting of the SPA Choice Policy. That's what's at the crux of this matter. The rule is hurting the SEPF, so they clearly want it lifted.

More power to the elbow of the choice policy I say!

This is ludicruous. I mean, seriously. "Our players want to play your rules - so lift your policy, and if you don't then you clearly don't want advanacement of the game and we'll sully your people on websites". Are you having a laugh?!

It is all and only about Blackpool for the SPA members, maybe an extra few quid in the coffers for a select few. For the SEPF, I would guess that it's all about a number of your top players realising that they can play in quality events most weekends as part of the SPA. They can't as part of the SEPF - certainly not with the same type of prizemoney.


SPA officials, by all means talk to them - but that position has to be that the choice policy stays, they are welcome to fold and come over and join - I'm sure the SPA events would be better with more players and teams, but not at the cost of our market leading position.


Some answers Bash.

As this will go on forever.

The SEPF have doubled in size
since February this year.

We have now got 4 regions throughout Scotland each running 6 tours per year,


Region 1 : North East
Region 2 : Fife/Tayside/Angus
Region 3 : Borders
Region 4 : Highlands/Moray

Regions increasing with leagues affilliating all the time.
3 LEAGUES JOINING THIS WEEK.

Plans to start another region within the next few months.

We have 4 National Singles events and a National Interleauge.

We have 3 International Events to compete in each year.
Worlds Blackpool 2011
Euros in Malta 2011
HIC in Scotland 2011

Our players do not want to play your rules and I dont know if your players want to play ours.
Our players can have and will continue to play in BB Events if they so wish and have the full support to do so from the SEPF.

Your players cannot play in WR events or they are banned.
Unless they play outside Scotland. What kind of pathetic exuse is that anyway.
Oh its not an exuse it means if the want to play on say the IPA Tour they can.

You may be market leaders but I see you still advertise 17000 members on your site
and that hasn't reduced since quite a few of your leagues have affiliated to the SEPF.
And as our Federation has doubled in 6 months your market share is decreasing as ours is increasing.

I put this post on to try and find some solution and to show that the SEPF were open and willing to discuss future plans for pool in Scotland.
This is still the case although
some of the negativity on here is beyond belief.

Maybe the FEAR of dropping the choice policy is what the problem is here because then every player wherever in Scotland could choose.

So protect your 17000 dwindling members and dictate to them as always.

We will continue to get on with playing pool and enjoying ourselves.

Simple question meeting or No meeting?
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RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: Bash, 17-08-2010 12:14 PM (#128)

alligator wrote:
The choice policy is to protect investment. just in case the sepf take some players or offer better tournaments for players we have this ridiculous policy. Ireland, England, Wales, Northern Ireland are all wrong. I dont think so.


Renzie, can you comment to the recent growth in BB events in the other countries you have called out above?
 
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Location: Lanarkshire

RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: alligator, 17-08-2010 12:26 PM (#129)

of course i will comment bash.the other countries dont have a choice policy restricting the tournaments they can play in.why then would bb events not increase in numbers.just as our events would increase in numbers if we ridded ourselves of the choice policy.simple really.
 
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RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: Bash, 17-08-2010 12:29 PM (#130)

Dek wrote:
[b]Bash wrote

This has to be one of the worst posts ever on the topic. Are you serious? A player taking an association to court over loss of earnings on a rule that they were in full knowledge of when they joined??! So, by the same token could the guys on the IPA take Harwood to court for the rule where they cannot play in an event with more than 3k prizemoney without his explicit permission?

Aye, ATB.

There is no benefit for the SPA as an association - which is run by the players by the way, not by a few people - to allow their members to play SEPF events. There is goodness for the SEPF for the lifting of the SPA Choice Policy. That's what's at the crux of this matter. The rule is hurting the SEPF, so they clearly want it lifted.

More power to the elbow of the choice policy I say!

This is ludicruous. I mean, seriously. "Our players want to play your rules - so lift your policy, and if you don't then you clearly don't want advanacement of the game and we'll sully your people on websites". Are you having a laugh?!

It is all and only about Blackpool for the SPA members, maybe an extra few quid in the coffers for a select few. For the SEPF, I would guess that it's all about a number of your top players realising that they can play in quality events most weekends as part of the SPA. They can't as part of the SEPF - certainly not with the same type of prizemoney.


SPA officials, by all means talk to them - but that position has to be that the choice policy stays, they are welcome to fold and come over and join - I'm sure the SPA events would be better with more players and teams, but not at the cost of our market leading position.


Some answers Bash.

As this will go on forever.

The SEPF have doubled in size
since February this year.

We have now got 4 regions throughout Scotland each running 6 tours per year,


Region 1 : North East
Region 2 : Fife/Tayside/Angus
Region 3 : Borders
Region 4 : Highlands/Moray

Regions increasing with leagues affilliating all the time.
3 LEAGUES JOINING THIS WEEK.

Plans to start another region within the next few months.

We have 4 National Singles events and a National Interleauge.

We have 3 International Events to compete in each year.
Worlds Blackpool 2011
Euros in Malta 2011
HIC in Scotland 2011

Our players do not want to play your rules and I dont know if your players want to play ours.
Our players can have and will continue to play in BB Events if they so wish and have the full support to do so from the SEPF.

Your players cannot play in WR events or they are banned.
Unless they play outside Scotland. What kind of pathetic exuse is that anyway.
Oh its not an exuse it means if the want to play on say the IPA Tour they can.

You may be market leaders but I see you still advertise 17000 members on your site
and that hasn't reduced since quite a few of your leagues have affiliated to the SEPF.
And as our Federation has doubled in 6 months your market share is decreasing as ours is increasing.

I put this post on to try and find some solution and to show that the SEPF were open and willing to discuss future plans for pool in Scotland.
This is still the case although
some of the negativity on here is beyond belief.

Maybe the FEAR of dropping the choice policy is what the problem is here because then every player wherever in Scotland could choose.

So protect your 17000 dwindling members and dictate to them as always.

We will continue to get on with playing pool and enjoying ourselves.

Simple question meeting or No meeting?


Sounds like you are doing just fine - and have no requirement at all for a meeting.

To answer your points - doubled in size? By what measure? By the way, when you have 100 players, doubling is easy. When you have 1,000 it's a shade harder, you agree?

How many leagues per region please? Not an average, actual number of leagues per region.

So you have 4 local tours. Regions have 6 per year you say? So it's like a league singles for a handful of leagues put together?

So you actually have 4 national events a year? Open? What's the entry fees and prizepool?

National Interleague is the equivalent of our Super's events, right?

You ahve 3 international events a year. Ok. Is the Malta one the place where the Ladies singles winner got 200 a few years ago? Scottish lass as I recall.

You say that SEPF players do not want to play BB - why then are you asking for the choice policy to be dropped? Obviously not for your players then - if they do not want to play BB rules (which all SPA events are run to) why are you asking for the policy to be dropped?

Except if it's to get more players from the SPA playing in SEPF events. If that's the case, then it has nothin to do with the noble cause of player power - you just want more players playing your events to validate a small organisation.

No SPA players play in the IPA tour to my understanding - please cite the names if I am incorrect. The purpose of the rule with regards to location is to ensure that there is no competition to the SPA in Scotland - a rule that has done us very well.

So you say that SPA affiliated leagues (plural) have recently left the SPA to join the SEPF. Can you name them?

The rest of your post sounds all very "My dad's bigger than your dad", and I'm not going to be dragged down to your level.

Either the SEPF is doing fine, and you are happy with the current situation - i.e. you have no need for the Choice Policy to be dropped - or you are not doing fine and you need the Choice Policy dropped. It's simple. It has to be one of those. Pick one.
 
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Joined: 10.12.07
Location: Lanarkshire

RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: Bash, 17-08-2010 12:30 PM (#131)

alligator wrote:
of course i will comment bash.the other countries dont have a choice policy restricting the tournaments they can play in.why then would bb events not increase in numbers.just as our events would increase in numbers if we ridded ourselves of the choice policy.simple really.


Sorry Renzie, but you've not answered the question. I'm not asking for your opinion - I would like facts. If you have none, and your comments are purely anecdotal just say so.
 
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Bash



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Joined: 10.12.07
Location: Lanarkshire

RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: Staffe, 17-08-2010 12:40 PM (#132)

Bash wrote:
Dek wrote:
[b]Bash wrote

This has to be one of the worst posts ever on the topic. Are you serious? A player taking an association to court over loss of earnings on a rule that they were in full knowledge of when they joined??! So, by the same token could the guys on the IPA take Harwood to court for the rule where they cannot play in an event with more than 3k prizemoney without his explicit permission?

Aye, ATB.

There is no benefit for the SPA as an association - which is run by the players by the way, not by a few people - to allow their members to play SEPF events. There is goodness for the SEPF for the lifting of the SPA Choice Policy. That's what's at the crux of this matter. The rule is hurting the SEPF, so they clearly want it lifted.

More power to the elbow of the choice policy I say!

This is ludicruous. I mean, seriously. "Our players want to play your rules - so lift your policy, and if you don't then you clearly don't want advanacement of the game and we'll sully your people on websites". Are you having a laugh?!

It is all and only about Blackpool for the SPA members, maybe an extra few quid in the coffers for a select few. For the SEPF, I would guess that it's all about a number of your top players realising that they can play in quality events most weekends as part of the SPA. They can't as part of the SEPF - certainly not with the same type of prizemoney.


SPA officials, by all means talk to them - but that position has to be that the choice policy stays, they are welcome to fold and come over and join - I'm sure the SPA events would be better with more players and teams, but not at the cost of our market leading position.


Some answers Bash.

As this will go on forever.

The SEPF have doubled in size
since February this year.

We have now got 4 regions throughout Scotland each running 6 tours per year,


Region 1 : North East
Region 2 : Fife/Tayside/Angus
Region 3 : Borders
Region 4 : Highlands/Moray

Regions increasing with leagues affilliating all the time.
3 LEAGUES JOINING THIS WEEK.

Plans to start another region within the next few months.

We have 4 National Singles events and a National Interleauge.

We have 3 International Events to compete in each year.
Worlds Blackpool 2011
Euros in Malta 2011
HIC in Scotland 2011

Our players do not want to play your rules and I dont know if your players want to play ours.
Our players can have and will continue to play in BB Events if they so wish and have the full support to do so from the SEPF.

Your players cannot play in WR events or they are banned.
Unless they play outside Scotland. What kind of pathetic exuse is that anyway.
Oh its not an exuse it means if the want to play on say the IPA Tour they can.

You may be market leaders but I see you still advertise 17000 members on your site
and that hasn't reduced since quite a few of your leagues have affiliated to the SEPF.
And as our Federation has doubled in 6 months your market share is decreasing as ours is increasing.

I put this post on to try and find some solution and to show that the SEPF were open and willing to discuss future plans for pool in Scotland.
This is still the case although
some of the negativity on here is beyond belief.

Maybe the FEAR of dropping the choice policy is what the problem is here because then every player wherever in Scotland could choose.

So protect your 17000 dwindling members and dictate to them as always.

We will continue to get on with playing pool and enjoying ourselves.

Simple question meeting or No meeting?


Sounds like you are doing just fine - and have no requirement at all for a meeting.

To answer your points - doubled in size? By what measure? By the way, when you have 100 players, doubling is easy. When you have 1,000 it's a shade harder, you agree?

How many leagues per region please? Not an average, actual number of leagues per region.

So you have 4 local tours. Regions have 6 per year you say? So it's like a league singles for a handful of leagues put together?

So you actually have 4 national events a year? Open? What's the entry fees and prizepool?

National Interleague is the equivalent of our Super's events, right?

You ahve 3 international events a year. Ok. Is the Malta one the place where the Ladies singles winner got 200 a few years ago? Scottish lass as I recall.

You say that SEPF players do not want to play BB - why then are you asking for the choice policy to be dropped? Obviously not for your players then - if they do not want to play BB rules (which all SPA events are run to) why are you asking for the policy to be dropped?

Except if it's to get more players from the SPA playing in SEPF events. If that's the case, then it has nothin to do with the noble cause of player power - you just want more players playing your events to validate a small organisation.

No SPA players play in the IPA tour to my understanding - please cite the names if I am incorrect. The purpose of the rule with regards to location is to ensure that there is no competition to the SPA in Scotland - a rule that has done us very well.

So you say that SPA affiliated leagues (plural) have recently left the SPA to join the SEPF. Can you name them?

The rest of your post sounds all very "My dad's bigger than your dad", and I'm not going to be dragged down to your level.

Either the SEPF is doing fine, and you are happy with the current situation - i.e. you have no need for the Choice Policy to be dropped - or you are not doing fine and you need the Choice Policy dropped. It's simple. It has to be one of those. Pick one.


Bash, you really have no idea. Derek give up, you are flogging a dead horse.
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Location: Aberdeen

RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: Bash, 17-08-2010 12:43 PM (#133)

So that was a resounding "No" on answering a few questions then. Excellent.
 
Serve no master, but your own ambition.
Bash



Posts: 4530
Joined: 10.12.07
Location: Lanarkshire

RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: Staffe, 17-08-2010 12:46 PM (#134)

Bash wrote:
So that was a resounding "No" on answering a few questions then. Excellent.


SadShockAngrySadShockAngryGrin
Staffe



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Location: Aberdeen

RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: patchat, 17-08-2010 12:46 PM (#135)

Bash stop trying to point score and open your eyes wee man.
 
Edited by patchat 17-08-2010 12:47 PM
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RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: maxi, 17-08-2010 12:49 PM (#136)

Bash wrote:

You ahve 3 international events a year. Ok. Is the Malta one the place where the Ladies singles winner got 200 a few years ago? Scottish lass as I recall.


If one of our Scottish Lassies are lucky enough to walk away WORLD CHAMPION in a couple of months time from the BB event in France, how much exactly will she have won? More or less than the example you have given?
 
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RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: bagpuss, 17-08-2010 01:40 PM (#137)

I think a lot of people are perhaps missing the point here. Ross keeps repeating the statement that it is down to the members. Why not have the meeting and prepare a list of facts, not opinions, as to what differences there would be to the members of the spa if the choice policy was lifted and then ask the members to vote. Rather than fill heads full of personal views, which is what this forum is for, present the facts and facts only and let the members decide, not just the area reps? Every body has there own ideas of where removing the ban would lead to, but if the non profit making organisation of the spa is really for the members then let them decide.
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RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: Dek, 17-08-2010 01:42 PM (#138)

Bash wrote:
So that was a resounding "No" on answering a few questions then. Excellent.


See you at the meeting Bash if the SPA want it to happen.

As previously said mate we can go round in circles all day with differences of opinions which we are all entitled to have.
I would prefer if we all sat round a table and openly discuss. If it turns out that neither side is happy with the
proposals/suggestions from the other then so be it.
But this discussion on here although showing peoples opinions will keep us going round in circles.
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Location: Aberdeen

RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: Bash, 17-08-2010 01:50 PM (#139)

maxi wrote:
Bash wrote:

You ahve 3 international events a year. Ok. Is the Malta one the place where the Ladies singles winner got 200 a few years ago? Scottish lass as I recall.


If one of our Scottish Lassies are lucky enough to walk away WORLD CHAMPION in a couple of months time from the BB event in France, how much exactly will she have won? More or less than the example you have given?


I believe that wee Kirsty got about 1.3k for winning the ladies singles at Brid.
 
Serve no master, but your own ambition.
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Posts: 4530
Joined: 10.12.07
Location: Lanarkshire

RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: Bash, 17-08-2010 01:52 PM (#140)

patchat wrote:
Bash stop trying to point score and open your eyes wee man.


Pool will never be anything but a pub sport unless someone comes in with a game-changing viewpoint. You's are all [b]NO SWEARING!![b]ed till I win the lottery I reckon.
 
Serve no master, but your own ambition.
Bash



Posts: 4530
Joined: 10.12.07
Location: Lanarkshire

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Trying to get it up and running - John working on it.

22/09/2018
Any streams for the ims today

21/09/2018
No dress code for the qualifiers Davy.

18/09/2018
I take it that their is no dress code for the 15s qualifiers folks

14/09/2018
Will the draw for 15s play-offs be done this week? Only 3 weeks away .

11/09/2018
Cheers bash, the deadline for Supers payments is now behind us, can't the draw be done sooner? Ta

10/09/2018
IM5 online now. Supers will likely be a couple of weeks

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