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An Invite from the SEPF
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  An Invite from the SEPF
by: Dek, 16-08-2010 07:27 AM (#61)

Woody wrote:
Bash wrote:
Dek wrote:
The SEPF already have players playing in various BB events.We have players on the CP Tour,The IM's and some of our players were recently invited to Maxi's Invitational Event a few weeks ago.


Clearly, this is a breach of current SPA rules and the guilty parties should be punished.


It would be, but the guys wrong the SEPF wont have any players playing IMs.


Woody you are correct.
My mistake, I thought the Fleming brothers played on the IM's.
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RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: mini hartson, 16-08-2010 07:43 AM (#62)

mini hartson wrote:
Dek wrote:
mini hartson wrote:
[quote]alligator wrote:
it will at the agm in january,i will also be asking at the next spa meeting that we the spa have representation in a meeting wiith the sepf.what harm can it do to sit and talk to these guys.in my humble opinion both the spa and the sepf would benefit from the spa getting rid of the choice policy.the spa numbers would increase for ims superleague etc and the sepf tournament entries would increase.everyone is a winner.so whats the problem because i cant see one.


Glad to see some encouraging posts on here regarding the getting together of the SPA & SEPF, Mini the main difference between the two are that they are both affilliated to different world bodies and of course both play different rules BB & WR.
The SEPF already have players playing in various BB events.We have players on the CP Tour,The IM's and some of our players were recently invited to Maxi's Invitational Event a few weeks ago. I myself will be playing in Ross's 5 man team event in Stirling in a few weeks time.
Your players however do not get to play in any of our events because of the choice policy. And if you do play you threaten being banned from certain SPA events.
I believe as do the SEPF that this is wrong as we are playing in an amateur sport in our country and people should be free to choose when, where and what they play in without being threatened or punished.
If the talks happen and we get some mutual aggreement then there is also the oppotunity to have combined events which would benefit both sides.
That is what I see as the differences between the two and this is why I feel a meeting and discussion would only benefit everyone concerned.


thank you .......i only have 1 question i assume you guys have different rules i play in the LD's team and i know through experience that rule change for us can be difficult for some......will this be a problem.....i know it wont be for the others but it might us?



????????
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RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: furrybeast, 16-08-2010 07:58 AM (#63)

The SEPF don't have LD or PH categories. WR are not the easiest to grasp for new players
 
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RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: mini hartson, 16-08-2010 08:01 AM (#64)

furrybeast wrote:
The SEPF don't have LD or PH categories. WR are not the easiest to grasp for new players



what happens to us then????
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RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: Dek, 16-08-2010 08:19 AM (#65)

mini hartson wrote:
furrybeast wrote:
The SEPF don't have LD or PH categories. WR are not the easiest to grasp for new players



what happens to us then????


Mini,

No one is asking anyone to change rules or discaplines here.All I have asked for is a meeting between the 2 bodies to discuss the future off the game in Scotland for hopefully everyones benefit.
As long as we keep the them and us thing going and slag each other off on websites we
will never get anywhere.
The SPA secretary has sent me a PM and has said he is willing to meet. I have replied asking for him to give suggested dates and venue for such a meeting. In my opinion this is a good start and I am pleased that we can hopefully meet soon to discuss the future of the game in Scotland and bury
the annimosity between the 2 bodies once and for all.
As long as there are 2 different
World bodies and 2 different ruleset there will always be the same down the line as all/most
countries are in the same position as each other.Even if this is the case there is no reason why we cant talk to each other and hopefully benefit the players in our own country by coming to some sort of agreement.
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RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: maxi, 16-08-2010 08:26 AM (#66)

knowledge wrote:

I agree entirely with that Maxi, now could you, as champion of the little guy, the guy who got the cat B players removed from IM5 please explain the benefit of this to those players?

Can you in fact explain the benefit of removal of the choice policy to any but a top SPA player? I have long advocated the removal of the choice policy, I have always thought it to be a division our game does not require but the root of the problem for pool has always been multiple rulesets.


Obviously you are looking at this in a blinkered state. Do you think ONLY the top WR players will come and play in SPA events?

Do you not think there are loads of WR players near the bottom rung of the ladder who would welcome coming and playing in events like the Wullie McCartney trophy? Would this not increase the prizefund for such an event and be of a large benefit to the little guy?

Outwith that event in the IM, if that were to increase membership by 100 or so the prizemoney would increase, and not just at the top.

The IM entry has increased to such a point just now that just getting to the last 64 gets you 10. Manage to qualify for two IM's and win a match at each and you have almost recouped your entry fee. Allied to the great experience under your belt from playing against the better players so there are loads of benefits for the smaller guys.
 
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RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: Bash, 16-08-2010 08:57 AM (#67)

cj1471 wrote:
Bash wrote:
Dek wrote:
The SEPF already have players playing in various BB events.We have players on the CP Tour,The IM's and some of our players were recently invited to Maxi's Invitational Event a few weeks ago.


Clearly, this is a breach of current SPA rules and the guilty parties should be punished.


Bash have you heard yourself.guilty parties.breach of rules.punished

GET A FECKIN LIFE ITS A PUB GAME


There you go folks. A clear indication of what we are dealing with here. Here is a person who openly advocates cheating - and when called out on it, tells people to "get a life".

Awesome. I can only applaud you.
 
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RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: Bash, 16-08-2010 08:59 AM (#68)

Dek wrote:
At present we both run Interleague events with 250-300 players in attendance.
Imagine if this is run as a combined event which could involve maybe all leagues in Scotland 500-600 players. This could be played twice a year 2 weekends out of 52.


Sorry, but no.

We run a Super's event that has 500 people in attendance. We then run a B version that has more like 300. We also run an 11's event that again has around the 500 mark. Can't recall if there is a B version of that.

So, we already have around 800 people regularly attending team events.

Just to help you with the facts.
 
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RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: knowledge, 16-08-2010 09:33 AM (#69)

mini hartson wrote:
furrybeast wrote:
The SEPF don't have LD or PH categories. WR are not the easiest to grasp for new players



what happens to us then????


Shot!

Plus all the WR venues are upstairs!
 
Edited by knowledge 16-08-2010 09:47 AM
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RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: knowledge, 16-08-2010 09:38 AM (#70)

maxi wrote:
knowledge wrote:

I agree entirely with that Maxi, now could you, as champion of the little guy, the guy who got the cat B players removed from IM5 please explain the benefit of this to those players?

Can you in fact explain the benefit of removal of the choice policy to any but a top SPA player? I have long advocated the removal of the choice policy, I have always thought it to be a division our game does not require but the root of the problem for pool has always been multiple rulesets.


Obviously you are looking at this in a blinkered state. Do you think ONLY the top WR players will come and play in SPA events?

Do you not think there are loads of WR players near the bottom rung of the ladder who would welcome coming and playing in events like the Wullie McCartney trophy? Would this not increase the prizefund for such an event and be of a large benefit to the little guy?

Outwith that event in the IM, if that were to increase membership by 100 or so the prizemoney would increase, and not just at the top.

The IM entry has increased to such a point just now that just getting to the last 64 gets you 10. Manage to qualify for two IM's and win a match at each and you have almost recouped your entry fee. Allied to the great experience under your belt from playing against the better players so there are loads of benefits for the smaller guys.


Read the question again and answer it properly.
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RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: knowledge, 16-08-2010 09:45 AM (#71)

Dek wrote:
All I have asked for is a meeting between the 2 bodies to discuss the future off the game in Scotland for hopefully everyones benefit.
As long as we keep the them and us thing going and slag each other off on websites we will never get anywhere.
The SPA secretary has sent me a PM and has said he is willing to meet. I have replied asking for him to give suggested dates and venue for such a meeting. In my opinion this is a good start and I am pleased that we can hopefully meet soon to discuss the future of the game in Scotland and bury the annimosity between the 2 bodies once and for all.
As long as there are 2 different
World bodies and 2 different ruleset there will always be the same down the line as all/most
countries are in the same position as each other.Even if this is the case there is no reason why we cant talk to each other and hopefully benefit the players in our own country by coming to some sort of agreement.


Ok, given the SPA's complete total failure at communication, distributing meeting minutes etc etc would you be prepared to share with us on this site what improvements you see to take the game as a whole forward and the benefits to members of each assoiation.

I say this as without communication on this website there is no chance most of us will ever find out what happened at the meeting.

Ps. I don't think there is any "animosity" as such, I think it's sad that we can't all play together and find out who the best players are and as such, particularly behind the safety of a screen people will defend thier players and rulesets.

I was fortunate enough to meet a few of our WR cousins the other week and to a man they seemed nice respectful guys and the talent shone out of them.
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RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: maxi, 16-08-2010 09:50 AM (#72)

knowledge wrote:

Read the question again and answer it properly.


I have, and I did.
 
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RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: Dek, 16-08-2010 09:52 AM (#73)

Bash wrote:
Dek wrote:
At present we both run Interleague events with 250-300 players in attendance.
Imagine if this is run as a combined event which could involve maybe all leagues in Scotland 500-600 players. This could be played twice a year 2 weekends out of 52.


Sorry, but no.

We run a Super's event that has 500 people in attendance. We then run a B version that has more like 300. We also run an 11's event that again has around the 500 mark. Can't recall if there is a B version of that.

So, we already have around 800 people regularly attending team events.

Just to help you with the facts.


Bash thanks for updating me on your numbers. If this is the case and whatever your numbers are then add potentially 300+ to them which would mean possibly twice a year team events with 800+ players. Now please dont tell me that wouldn't be good for the game in Scotland.
And for the players,organisers,SPA,SEPF,promoters,venues and potential sponsors.
We would finally after 15 - 20 years of separation have true Scottish events for the whole of Scotland.
If you can think of a different way of achieving this then please share it with us all.
All we need to do is talk and I for one minute am not suggesting that everything will be rosy as it is blatantly obvious that there are different views and opinions from both sides of the fence.
But at least if we meet and discuss/debate the problems we are facing. We have a chance of finding a solution.
If we dont we continue as we are.
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RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: knowledge, 16-08-2010 10:02 AM (#74)

maxi wrote:
knowledge wrote:

Read the question again and answer it properly.


I have, and I did.


You didn't, although I didn't think you would be able to.
 
Edited by knowledge 16-08-2010 10:04 AM
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RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: maxi, 16-08-2010 10:12 AM (#75)

Just to clarify John, you asked two questions not one.

My reply is simple, entries would increase in ALL levels of SPA events. Not just the elite tournaments.
 
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RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: Bash, 16-08-2010 10:19 AM (#76)

maxi wrote:
Just to clarify John, you asked two questions not one.

My reply is simple, entries would increase in ALL levels of SPA events. Not just the elite tournaments.


Increasing entries is only good for 2 groups of people - organisers and top players. Joe Bloggs in the Grassroots would actually find it to his detriment for overall SPA entries to increase.

That said, growing the membership should be a target for the SPA - but not at the cost of rejuvenating the competition.
 
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RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: Dek, 16-08-2010 10:25 AM (#77)

I was fortunate enough to meet a few of our WR cousins the other week and to a man they seemed nice respectful guys and the talent shone out of them.[/quote]

Woody,

If and once the meeting has taken place I can assure you that the pool players of Scotland will have access to all that has been discusssed,Minuted and agreed. I cannot comment on the communication issues within the SPA but can inform everyone that the outcome of the meeting will be corresponded to ALL players.
After all the reason for my suggestion of the meeting in the first place is to
benefit YOU the players.
Without players we dont have
either SPA or SEPF.
It is about time in my opinion that they are consulted and informed in future.
And as you said on your post you have met some of the Aberdeen lads I presume at Maxi's event and you are right they are all good guys and can all play the game whatever ruleset. If we can agree going forward the opportunities for joint events and meeting and playing against each other on a more regular basis has to be good for pool in general.
Dont you think?
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RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: Bash, 16-08-2010 10:31 AM (#78)

Dek wrote:
Bash thanks for updating me on your numbers. If this is the case and whatever your numbers are then add potentially 300+ to them which would mean possibly twice a year team events with 800+ players. Now please dont tell me that wouldn't be good for the game in Scotland.
And for the players,organisers,SPA,SEPF,promoters,venues and potential sponsors.
We would finally after 15 - 20 years of separation have true Scottish events for the whole of Scotland.
If you can think of a different way of achieving this then please share it with us all.
All we need to do is talk and I for one minute am not suggesting that everything will be rosy as it is blatantly obvious that there are different views and opinions from both sides of the fence.
But at least if we meet and discuss/debate the problems we are facing. We have a chance of finding a solution.
If we dont we continue as we are.


Ok, so first off - my understanding of this is probably limited - so someone help me out here. The SEPF holds events, and has something like 300 people playing in Interleague events. You maybe have the same number playing in your singles tournaments and tours? Maybe less, I'm not sure.

You have how many events a year? Like major singles events, and what's the approximate prize fund? Where are they held?

The reason I'm asking is that I'm trying to understand how interesting these events would be to Joe Bloggs SPA member. I mean, we get pittiful turnouts at Inverness for SPA events - how many SPA members do we think would go to Aberdeen to play WR?

Also, as I said in a previous post - my view on this is that the WR side of the house have the WC as a jewel in the crown and that's about it. Nationally, the SPA volume, value, and organisation of events would be hard to beat. The BB side of the house, having been recognised by the WPA has the "moral high ground" when it comes to any talks of combining the game.

Also, having spoken to a number of your top boys when in Wales for an event (Mick, etc) they said that BB rules were preferable to WR - although MEGA wide open.



Now onto your point about the events. We have a few constraints; venue, table hire, organisation, etc. If we had 32 tables and a venue to hold then (plus accommodation) then we would not have A and B events, I'd wager - we'd have 800 people at a venue ourselves - and then you would be able to add to that.

You'd need to convince me that the cost of a bigger venue would be offset by what we could make from the event - i.e. no more cash came out of the players pockets for the change. You'd also haave to convince me that this would be the first step to Scotland moving to a single set of pool rules.

I'm not necessarily a exponent of "bigger is better" when it comes to pool events - I mean Ross' tour ran for years with 128 and is still the best event that I've played in within the UK. More people means more prizemoney, means more infrastructure costs, means more heads and better communication.

I think we'd have to understand the attractiveness of an event to a major sponsor. Merely saying it is easy, getting a sponsor I believe to be far more difficult.
 
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RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: Bash, 16-08-2010 10:34 AM (#79)

maxi wrote:
Bash, how long has the choice policy been in place?

Do we have a unified game in Scotland?

So facts prove that the choice policy will NOT create ONE ruleset in Scotland or indeed anywhere in the world.


For me, this is the first sign that the choice policy IS WORKING. Clearly enoughg SEPF players want to play in SPA events now - we should hold the line and see where this goes.
 
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RE: An Invite from the SEPF
by: knowledge, 16-08-2010 10:36 AM (#80)

maxi wrote:
Just to clarify John, you asked two questions not one.

My reply is simple, entries would increase in ALL levels of SPA events. Not just the elite tournaments.


I'm sure they would but blurting out random opinions is not giving answers. I asked you to explain the benefits to the non top SPA player, to try to elicit an answer, I asked twice.

Am still waiting.

Just to clarify.
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