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The Scottish Pool Association Ľ General Ľ Super 15s
2019 S15 Proposed Divisions
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  2019 S15 Proposed Divisions
by: FCBash, 20-07-2019 11:08 AM (#1)

All,

Please see below the proposed divisions for the 2019 S15's. These will remain provisional until the payment deadline (Sunday 1st September) has passed. In addition, no draws will be carried out until the payment deadline date passes.

PLEASE NOTE: Due to the number of new areas that have joined, and have guaranteed entry to the divisional setup, some teams have been, very unfortunately, demoted to the playoff stage. This is also applicable to teams involved in relegation matches at the last S15 event.

Alternative options were explored before taking this decision but these were not viable.

Regards,
Michael


Premier Division
1 Central Ayrshire A
2 Clackmannanshire A
3 Coatbridge A
4 Dumfries A
5 Dundee A
6 Dunfermline A
7 East Kilbride A
8 Edinburgh A
9 Edinburgh B
10 Falkirk A
11 Glasgow A
12 Kilmarnock A
13 Livingston A
14 Midlothian A
15 Motherwell A
16 Uddingston A


First Division
1 Aberdeen A
2 Arbroath A
3 Central Ayrshire B
4 Clackmannanshire B
5 Cowdenbeath A
6 Cumbernauld A
7 East Fife A
8 East Kilbride B
9 Falkirk B
10 Glasgow B
11 Kirkcaldy A
12 Monklands A
13 Motherwell B
14 Paisley A
15 Perth A
16 Whitburn A


Second Division
1 Arbroath B
2 Bannockburn A
3 Clydebank A
4 Dumfries B
5 Dunfermline B
6 East Ayrshire A
7 East Fife B
8 Edinburgh C
9 Glasgow C
10 Inverness A
11 Kilmarnock B
12 Levenmouth A
13 Paisley B
14 Perth B
15 Uddingston B
16 West Fife A


Third Division
1 Ayr & District A
2 Berwick A
3 Borders A
4 Dingwall A
5 Doon Valley A
6 Dundee B
7 East Lothian A
8 Forfar A
9 Kilmarnock C
10 Kirkcaldy B
11 Orkney A
12 Springfield & District A
13 Thurso A
14 Wick & District A
15 Playoff Qualifier
16 Playoff Qualifier


Playoffs
1 Aberdeen B
2 Clydebank B
3 Coatbridge B
4 Coatbridge C
5 Cowdenbeath B
6 Cumbernauld B
7 Dundee C
8 Dunfermline C
9 Dunfermline D
10 East Ayrshire B
11 East Fife C
12 East Fife D
13 East Kilbride C
14 Edinburgh D
15 Edinburgh E
16 Falkirk C
17 Falkirk D
18 Levenmouth B
19 Livingston B
20 Midlothian B
21 Midlothian C
22 Springfield B
23 Uddingston C


Playoff Venues
The teams will be split into two venues.
12 teams in venue one
11 teams in venue two

Format to be confirmed when payment deadline passes.
 
SPA IM Secretary
Arbroath & District Match Secretary
 
Edited by FCBash 20-07-2019 11:09 AM
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RE: 2019 S15 Proposed Divisions
by: FCBash, 20-07-2019 11:09 AM (#2)

Event Dates
Play-Offs Ė Sunday 6th October
Premier Division Ė 1st-3rd November
Division 1 Ė 22nd-24th November
Division 2 Ė 8th-10th November
Division 3 Ė 15th-17th November

Fees
Entry and accommodation fees must be cleared in the SPA accounts no later than Sunday 1st September 2019.

Entry fee is £200 per team.

Squads can be up to 18 players. Accommodation fees are £45 per player.

15 players = (15 x £45) + £200 (entry) = £875
16 players = (16 x £45) + £200 (entry) = £920
17 players = (17 x £45) + £200 (entry) = £965
18 players = (18 x £45) + £200 (entry) = £1010


Additional vans for family, supporters etc, £160 per van.

Account Details
Bank of Scotland: SPA Events Account
Sort Code: 80-09-72
Account No: 06001014

Please reference Area, Team and player number you are paying (i.e. Arbroath A 16)

Regards,
Michael
 
SPA IM Secretary
Arbroath & District Match Secretary
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RE: 2019 S15 Proposed Divisions
by: CPB_Captain, 20-07-2019 12:58 PM (#3)

What order are the reserves in for this Michael?

I know Falkirk C werenít even in a relegation match at 15s we got to knockouts but not sure of other teams. Just wondering if one of those A teams donít pay if we are first in line to replace them.

Cheers.
 
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RE: 2019 S15 Proposed Divisions
by: CPB_Captain, 20-07-2019 01:10 PM (#4)

Also, with the A teams not being able to get relegated we now have 11 A teams in the bottom division! So 2 of the other 5 are getting relegated no matter what. Thatís wild. Is there no option of another division? Might be too late for this year but maybe put something in place for next year as if 2 more A teams get relegated from division 2 it could be even worse.
 
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RE: 2019 S15 Proposed Divisions
by: TNT, 20-07-2019 02:28 PM (#5)

CPB_Captain wrote:
Also, with the A teams not being able to get relegated we now have 11 A teams in the bottom division! So 2 of the other 5 are getting relegated no matter what. Thatís wild. Is there no option of another division? Might be too late for this year but maybe put something in place for next year as if 2 more A teams get relegated from division 2 it could be even worse.


Canít wait till thereís 4 A teams in relegation playoffs and B/C teams finishing in KO stages getting relegated. Thatíll be some laugh!! Frown
 
Div 1 Super 11s Champions 2017 - Dundee A
Div 3 Super 11s Champions 2018 - Dundee B

Dave McLaren
SPA Referee
 
Edited by TNT 20-07-2019 02:29 PM
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RE: 2019 S15 Proposed Divisions
by: CPB_Captain, 20-07-2019 04:00 PM (#6)

TNT wrote:
CPB_Captain wrote:
Also, with the A teams not being able to get relegated we now have 11 A teams in the bottom division! So 2 of the other 5 are getting relegated no matter what. Thatís wild. Is there no option of another division? Might be too late for this year but maybe put something in place for next year as if 2 more A teams get relegated from division 2 it could be even worse.


Canít wait till thereís 4 A teams in relegation playoffs and B/C teams finishing in KO stages getting relegated. Thatíll be some laugh!! Frown


Wouldnít surprise me mate. Already happens to us, we made the knockouts last year and Iím sure Dunfermline did as well but donít quote me on that. Tough one to take
 
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RE: 2019 S15 Proposed Divisions
by: BISTO, 20-07-2019 06:08 PM (#7)

Can someone please answer why a team that finished 4th in the group stage and a team that finished 6th in same group and both went out in the quarter finals of knock outs by same score and the team that finished 6th is in straight into 3rd Division and team that finished 4th is in playoffs??
 
Different Gravy!!!!!!!!!
 
Edited by BISTO 20-07-2019 06:20 PM
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RE: 2019 S15 Proposed Divisions
by: Fat Nut, 20-07-2019 07:00 PM (#8)

The whole idea that an 'A' team can't get relegated is a disgrace. The concept of any competition is you get what u deserve. What's next?? A 'B' Team is not allowed to win it??
 
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RE: 2019 S15 Proposed Divisions
by: joefoley, 20-07-2019 10:56 PM (#9)

I would like someone to explain why Coatbridge B are placed in playoff's after successfully getting through playoffs last year and reaching the quarter finals but suddenly this year back in playoff's??????

Before all this nonsense about so many new area's that have appeared from out the blue I would like to point out that Coatbridge B finished above Kilmarnock C in group stage then both lost out in quarter finals !!!!

Coatbridge B would obviously gain advantage finishing above them so could someone clarify this A.S.A.P ??

Cheers
 
pint
 
Edited by joefoley 20-07-2019 10:57 PM
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RE: 2019 S15 Proposed Divisions
by: secretary, 21-07-2019 01:07 AM (#10)

joefoley wrote:
I would like someone to explain why Coatbridge B are placed in playoff's after successfully getting through playoffs last year and reaching the quarter finals but suddenly this year back in playoff's??????

Before all this nonsense about so many new area's that have appeared from out the blue I would like to point out that Coatbridge B finished above Kilmarnock C in group stage then both lost out in quarter finals !!!!

Coatbridge B would obviously gain advantage finishing above them so could someone clarify this A.S.A.P ??

Cheers


Perhaps after finishing the same in KO stages, looking back to the group stage...

Head to Head they beat you 8-7
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RE: 2019 S15 Proposed Divisions
by: Fat Nut, 21-07-2019 08:02 AM (#11)

So what's the criteria then after already coming through the playoffs? What do you need to do? Win it? Semi final? Getting to the quarter final wasn't enough. How are these decisions made? And what happens if more A teams get relegated to the 3rd division?
 
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RE: 2019 S15 Proposed Divisions
by: geegee1984, 21-07-2019 08:16 AM (#12)

We really need to abolish this A teams canít be related and new teams automatically join the 3rd division rule

Itís unfair to teams who support the event in previous years

Suppose the only way to change it is propose it and vote on it at the agm
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RE: 2019 S15 Proposed Divisions
by: joefoley, 21-07-2019 09:39 AM (#13)

secretary wrote:
joefoley wrote:
I would like someone to explain why Coatbridge B are placed in playoff's after successfully getting through playoffs last year and reaching the quarter finals but suddenly this year back in playoff's??????

Before all this nonsense about so many new area's that have appeared from out the blue I would like to point out that Coatbridge B finished above Kilmarnock C in group stage then both lost out in quarter finals !!!!

Coatbridge B would obviously gain advantage finishing above them so could someone clarify this A.S.A.P ??

Cheers


Perhaps after finishing the same in KO stages, looking back to the group stage...

Head to Head they beat you 8-7

They might have beat us 8-7 in group stage but we finished 4 points above them !!!!!
Head to head only comes into play when both team on same points .
What was the reason Kirkcaldy managed to stay in 3 rd division instead of Coatbridge as they played in different group???
 
pint
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RE: 2019 S15 Proposed Divisions
by: mcfad1, 21-07-2019 10:17 AM (#14)

Head to head should only be counted if both teams are on the same points. So why was Coatbridge relagated to the play off's when kilmarnock were below them in the group stage
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RE: 2019 S15 Proposed Divisions
by: BISTO, 21-07-2019 10:29 AM (#15)

What about this??

Group placing were used here. Teams going out at same stage of knockouts, reference should be made to groups like last time.


16-07-2017 01:39 PM #10 RE: 2017 S15 Divisions
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Dawson wrote:
Can someone tell me why coatbridge B have to play in a qualifier this year as we got knocked out in the knocked out round to the winners of the 3rd div last year ????????


Dawson,

Two teams who were not involved in the relegation matches last year, in the third division, have suffered the dreaded news that they have been relegated and must now play in the qualifiers.

I contacted both these areas myself yesterday to explain the situation and inform them prior to the divisions being posted.

To be open and transparent to all.

There have been two new A teams this year, which means two additional teams have to be removed from the lowest division to allow these teams to take their place. It is an agreement of the Supers' setup that every area is guaranteed an A team in these events.

In the relegation matches last year there were four teams. 7 v 8 from each group. This consisted of two A teams and two B teams. The two A teams won their respective matches and survived relegation.

So now there is a requirement to remove two teams which cannot be the two other teams that were involved in the relegation matches because they are A teams. Had these teams been B,C,D etc teams they would have been relegated regardless of their win.

Discussions with the TC agreed that the teams to be relegated should be those that ended the group stage in 6th place. It is these two teams that have been relegated and now have to play through the playoffs. I appreciate and understand the players involved in these teams will be disappointed to hear of this news.

Regards,
Michael
SPA IM Secretary
Arbroath & District Match Secretary
 
Different Gravy!!!!!!!!!
 
Edited by BISTO 21-07-2019 10:35 AM
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RE: 2019 S15 Proposed Divisions
by: Fat Nut, 21-07-2019 10:55 AM (#16)

Can nobody in charge see the monumental flaw in this??? A new area gets announced who are nowhere near good enough but can keep playing because they are an 'A' team. The idea of competition is the best are successful and those who are not good enough need to improve. I don't think there would be many members who would agree with the current way of doing things regardless of their current team status.
 
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RE: 2019 S15 Proposed Divisions
by: BISTO, 21-07-2019 11:27 AM (#17)

Could you explain the reason for a team staying up who only scored 6 frames at quarter final stage when losing when other teams scored 7 and are relegated??
Is it because of their finishing position in the group??
If so why is group positions not used when teams go out at same stage and by same losing score??
 
Different Gravy!!!!!!!!!
 
Edited by BISTO 21-07-2019 12:04 PM
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RE: 2019 S15 Proposed Divisions
by: chalmers7, 21-07-2019 12:11 PM (#18)

Michael, who did you contact from Dunfermline to let them know if this decision?

ďI contacted both these areas myself yesterday to explain the situation and inform them prior to the divisions being posted.Ē
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RE: 2019 S15 Proposed Divisions
by: BISTO, 21-07-2019 12:15 PM (#19)

Discussions with the TC agreed that the teams to be relegated should be those that ended the group stage in 6th place. It is these two teams that have been relegated and now have to play through the playoffs. I appreciate and understand the players involved in these teams will be disappointed to hear of this news.

Should the above not apply here again this year??
 
Different Gravy!!!!!!!!!
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RE: 2019 S15 Proposed Divisions
by: joefoley, 21-07-2019 03:13 PM (#20)

BISTO wrote:
Discussions with the TC agreed that the teams to be relegated should be those that ended the group stage in 6th place. It is these two teams that have been relegated and now have to play through the playoffs. I appreciate and understand the players involved in these teams will be disappointed to hear of this news.

Should the above not apply here again this year??

I'll 2nd that Liam but instead of doing the decent thing and for once the S.P.A admitting they got it wrong and changing it !!!but no doubt we'll get the usual response that they will look at it for future events blah blah blah.
 
pint
 
Edited by joefoley 21-07-2019 03:13 PM
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